God and 4th Dimension

[Gilles]

No, but the computer doesn't make me a happier person

[zoralink]

forgive me if this has already been said, but I tried to scan all the last messages, and didn't suspect this has been said before:

is it possible that god, whether in the 4th or 5th dimension is one of perhaps more than one creatures of said dimension? This would sound blasphemous for any monotheistic person, but, could it be possible that god is every bit at the mercy of the physics of his/her dimension as are others, and maybe even every bit at the mercy of the dimension above that; just as we are to god?

I speak almost completely with euphemisms, so that may not have made since because I was actually trying to be clear, heh heh. Let me know if I need to clarify what I am trying to ask.

[Gilles]

Hi Zoralink

I know what you're trying to say, and if it's possible depends on how you define God, that's all.

To me, god is every single molecule, aswell as the combinations of some molecules to a cell, aswell as the organs, every body, evey population, every planet, or star, every galaxy, every universe, and every fraction of everything I just summed up.
And I don't think there's a difference between all of those, other then what we make of it. Allso, I think all of these are in one way or another conscient of what happens around them, and thus conscient of god, and of their goal, wich allways comes down to binding to others.
Each of those to me is 4- 5 and multidimensional, so god is all dimensions aswell, but, this is just an opinion, as is yours.

To others, God might be a man in the sky, of god might me the money they posses, or a guitar, food or sex...

I think God is what gives you joy, energy, the power to live. It's not realy important what or who he is, aslong as you use his power to live, which is your own power, cos, as you said, you're god aswell.

[zoralink]

Since I am over here saying what I personally believe, I don't think I believe that a being in other dimensions than the third is possible. But hey, I just thought of something. Since my defintion of god is "the reason we all think and search", than I suppose simply the topic of "4th dimension" is an aspect of god, heh heh.

I can say I agree completely with what you said about your defintion of god; put more eloquently than I just did.

I suppose I was trying to think of a solution to others' explanations of god as a four dimensional being, but myself, I am a pantheist; so it's pretty much what you said in that last post. I didnt explain my belief before because it would not be condusive to the topic, but I suppose conversations flow and I probably missed the point way back.

[blupigan]

well, that was a funny argument between gilles and jindyu. gilles, your thing about molecules learning from each other, was a bit far fetched. i also have a great amount of love for things that arent 'alive'. -ie. sentimental things-

but to say that molecules learn from each other and value the experience with each other? thats a little much wouldnt you say. molecules are atoms, which are in turn composed of basic ingredients -protons electrons neutrons- and those ingredients are incapable at their current levels inside a molecule to record any thought, or take any information about the surrounding world into itself for evaluation for it to be able to appreciate anything. it doesnt have any organelles so i dont think it can live. so i love water droplets too, but i dont expect them to be sad if i dont drink them.

i liked the idea that 'god' created things so it could experience itself. im a buddhist and i dont really let any thoughts of god interefere with my life, as long as i do what i belive to be right everytime i get the chance to. regardless i like to think of all matter as a piece of a big sentient thing. although i dont know or not if i believe in a sentient god, its a nice thought.

but its one of those thoughts that is there to make everyone feel better, like "god works in mysterious ways" and all that 'everythings gonna be ok'. it kind of works together with karma doesnt it? if everyone and everything is god then we are all part of one being. so every moment of sadness is mirrored by someone else being happy, and everyone whos mad is mirrored by someone who's not. even if it's on the level of over thousands of years and millions of galaxies. if it was one big being then the emotions of everything that lives would have to equal out when all piled up at the end of the universe. like a big equation, what you do to one side must be done to the other.
good=bad
happy=sad


im not saying thats my belief, but its a nice thought.

[Nick]

Moved to Religious Debates; its still related to the fourth dimension, but it's more about god than 4d.

[darthbadass]

Dunno if you've ever heard of the third eye, but someone who opened that one can see in four dimensions. It's a different kind of watching, but i swear it's 4-dimensional

Have you a reference to a reputable journal, preferrably scientific, that can account for such an eye? Is there any experimental evidence to back it up or is it all assumed true until proven?

Are you referring to the Eye of Horus (something about a sixth chakra??) I looked it up - it's ancient Egyptian mysticism, not reality.

The third eye is something of a metaphor, not an actual anatomical object.

[bo198214]

Various spiritual schools work with the third eye, but I have never heard that someone had seen 4 spatial dimensions with it!
Probably the 4th dimension is metaphoricly meant in this context, i.e. seeing more than only the physical realm.

[SpunkySkunk347]

Well i think that a 4d being would have such extraordinary powers that only one being of a fourth dimension could exsist. AKA God

For example, a fourth dimensional being can be within all amount of time. He can be back 10000 years ago or 10000 years from now. He can also be at any place at any time.

THEORY ON GOD- God was a rebel, born into the fourth dimension. As most beings are, he wanted to be dominant. So he went back in time destroyed all other 4th dimensional beings besides himself OR he went back in time before there was any fourth dimensional beings. Eventually he got lonely, if he created or let a 4th dimensional being live, then he might fear that the 4th dimensional being would destroy him. So instead of making "friends" in the 4th dimension, why not create "friends" in the third dimension so he can remain dominant. Just a theory...

[moonlord]

You're considering the fourth dimension to be a timelike dimension. We consider it (here) a spacial dimension. Your theory is interesting, nonetheless, if you'd correct the discrepancy.

[bo198214]

born into the fourth dimension.

Who are the parents of God? :?

[WalkingEagle]

Then "god" as you all have described him/her/it is really a physical being and not the creator of the universe or all the universes. "God" as we are familiar with this being may be a visitor to our world, or solar system, and have now departed. A physical being but possesses the ability to interact with a 3-dimensional world and universe from his/her/it 4-dimensional perspective.

He cannot affect "change" in a 3-dimensional universe. He cannot affect "change", i.e. growth, expansion and evolution in our dimension.

Personally, I believe Jehovah or "YHWH" was never really from this world but from somewhere else. There is also a theory that "God" and his "angels" (possibly crew or people) were the original inhabiters of this world and solar system and left eons ago because of some unnatural cataclysm.... WAR... that rendered the inner most planets uninhabitable for centuries. Lets say, THEY returned centuries possibly 800 centuries ago and...

Bottom line? The god we worship isn't a 4-dimensional being, but a physical entity of this universe... along with his people.

Just a thought.

[papernuke]

if someone/something could see everything at the same time, then it could be possible if there actually is a fourth dimension. if he/she/it could actually see everything, then it could also see into all the dimensions not only the 1st four

[papernuke]

If he could see in all the dimensions, he wouldn't see much, because everything will look overlappiong and all over the place (no offence).

[thigle]

@bo: gods dont need parents necessarily. they can be born miraculously. that's nature of gods - beings whose past virtues have made them gods (for some time). certain circumstances might lead to miraculous birth, like manifesting directly from space, or whatever.

@icon: seeing all-at-once doesn't necessarily mean that one cannot distinguish what's what. overlapping is different from interpenetrating anyway. Indra's net is a classic example of everything-in-everything - things are infinitely mirrored in each other so there is everything present everywhere.

@eagle: there are gods and gods. there are physical world-bound gods, that are bound to their lifeform mostly by desire. there are lightbody-bound gods that use subtle informational body as the substrate for their streams of experience instead of physical bodies. then there are completely bodyless gods of the abstract realm of no-form, who are a-local and a-temporal and don't need the aggregate of form to function properly.

the god that was mainly discussed here is of the second type - it is a light being. he's solar-system old. the gods you talk about might have been of the first type - bound to the physical realm more than light-like or space-like gods.

first ones live within lightcones. second ones live in the surface of the lightcones. third formless kind lives outside of lightcones.

just a note.

[bo198214]

Sorry, thigle but I never saw a miracolous birth of a god, so I have some slight doubts. The greek mythology at least shows that most gods have parents, though I am not sure which greek gods dont have parents.

[PWrong]

first ones live within lightcones. second ones live in the surface of the lightcones. third formless kind lives outside of lightcones.

What religion is this? I know you've mentioned lightcones before. Are you claiming that every god in every religion exists and has something to do with lightcones?

[bo198214]

By some theory gods (realized for example by the computer game black&white) are created by worshipping them, might be the light cone first created by worshipping and then the god appears either in or at the surface of the light cone ... dummdidumm ... (:wink:)

[PWrong]

I think Terry Pratchet had the same idea.

[thigle]

i dont know about terry pratchet, but tony smith has this concept of internal, ordinary and exotic spacetimes. buddhists have these levels of life defined in terms of the subtleness of the form-aggregate. juxtapose those and you got some physically-grounded metaphysics and metaphysically grounded physics.

tony smith's...
life:http://www.valdostamuseum.org/hamsmith/allspaces.html#life
all spaces(life, universe & everything): http://www.valdostamuseum.org/hamsmith/allspaces.html#PhysLifeViz
Levels of Life Forms in terms of D4-D5-E6-E7-E8 VoDou Physics:
http://www.valdostamuseum.org/hamsmith/GITSsac.html#PhysLifeViz

as for the buddhist refs, it's a commonn distinction from tripithaka to dzogchen, one can consult for ex.:
_JamgyonKongtrul: Myriad Worlds - Buddhist Cosmology in Abhidharma, Kalachakra & Dzogchen, SnowLion Publishing
_J M Reynolds & Namkhai Norbu Rinpoche - Self-Liberation through Seeing with Naked Awareness, ??? publishing. (a re-translation of tibetan book of the dead, in argument to classical translation by Evan-Wentz that was flavoured by his hindu background. contains an appendix, one chapter of which speak of the issue of God of the West from the buddhist-dzogchen perspective) in case of interst i can scan it and send it to anyone, it's like 6 pages that chapter)

[noex]

if you can visualize it,then you are apart of it. The obervor is the observored.Basic Heisenberg or poetically speaking a tautagory .Problems obviously arise in the fact that any description is not the described and words fail.///Trancedence ??

[bo198214]

///Orthography, Grammar ??

[GARD1]

Dunno if you've ever heard of the third eye, but someone who opened that one can see in four dimensions. It's a different kind of watching, but i swear it's 4-dimensional

Have you a reference to a reputable journal, preferrably scientific, that can account for such an eye? Is there any experimental evidence to back it up or is it all assumed true until proven?

Are you referring to the Eye of Horus (something about a sixth chakra??) I looked it up - it's ancient Egyptian mysticism, not reality.

The third eye is something of a metaphor, not an actual anatomical object.

Since the stoneage there has been performed an operation of trepanation. The pasient gets an opening through the skull, leaving an permanent open hole. There are several body remains especially in latin america who has lived for years with such surgical work. Which is amazing.
Why they came up whith the idea is not known. What we know is that they belived the operation opened up "the third eye" "the door into the divine".
Also, trepaning has been performed around the globe in many cultures.

Please look into trepantion by google search or some other search engine to find more about the subject.

I'm sorry about being a bit off topic

[danielmoore]

the cross

funny how an unfolded cube ressembles a cross, and an unfolded hypercube is a sort of 3d cross.

im athiest, but all of this is somewhat compelling.

maybe the 4d beings play a game called rule the 3d world, and try to see how long they can make the palnet last w/ minimal interference, this is my theory neway, lol

[GARD1]

That's old news.

Funny how You found it, being an atheist, or so You State.

[GARD1]

God is in everything at all time, time is no issue for God, seconds and hours is defined by man and with man made instruments with minute perfection.

Even today nobody would take on building Khufu's pyramid due to the perfection of orientation of being off by 5 seconds North/South. The pyramid was built some 4600 years ago. An example of how minute we can measure, but cannot recreate, or build by. Building the Khufu pyramid today would cost several US military budgets throughout the next 30 years.

Time.

[monaroman]

everyone has heard about God can see the future and see the past right? God is not only seeing the future, but hes inthe future. same with the past. i also have a theory that relates to us and planespace. my head is just a few inches depth away from planespace, yet a dionian cannot see me. but i can see everything in their world, whats inside their house, safe, even whats inside them. i can see everything in the dionians world, but i dont see it from the dionians perspective. this is why the dionian cannot understand. now if God is four dimensional he would have that same power over us because he sees everything in our world that there is to see, just not from our perspective.

[wehavemoreltd]

i been their, and i think i have seen him. didnt have glasses on but i know how to get to the 4th dimension