Could Visual Reorientation Illusions be 4d Related?

Discussions about how to visualize 4D and higher, whether through crosseyedness, dreaming, or connecting one's nerves directly to a computer sci-fi style.

Re: Could Visual Reorientation Illusions be 4d Related?

Postby PatrickPowers » Wed Mar 24, 2021 11:38 am

You might enjoy this vid I made before I had ever heard of a VRI.
https://youtu.be/n0fdKTaTfdM
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Re: Could Visual Reorientation Illusions be 4d Related?

Postby Hugh » Wed Mar 24, 2021 12:12 pm

PatrickPowers wrote:You might enjoy this vid I made before I had ever heard of a VRI.
https://youtu.be/n0fdKTaTfdM


Well that was fun. Well done. :)

I’ve seen some of your other videos with regards to 4D animations on your other YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCoFTI5DQgTCSm-Lz-VI8JKQ

It would be awesome to see some sort of an animation which would show a VRI and how it could be 4D related.

The turn is an instantaneous one. It is like looking at a Necker Cube flip, but one is actually inside the cube, and it is 3D all around you.

I made a picture kind of explaining it:

Image

If we are actually 4D or higher, and we are surrounded by 4D or higher, but could only see a 3D “slice” of our surroundings at any time, but could see that 3D slice from different directions because of those other available directions, could VRIs be the way that we can do that? Rudy Rucker created a Neck-A-Cube model that would help to peer into 4D and it relies on a necker cube type of “twinkling arrangement” similar to the VRI.

VRIs made the news recently in this article:

https://www.universetoday.com/149559/since-theres-no-up-or-down-in-space-how-do-our-brains-deal-with-this/

If that universetoday link didn’t work, this might:

https://www.sciencetimes.com/articles/29132/20210115/up-down-direction-space-research-reveals-brains-deal.htm

I’m hoping that someone can help to put all the pieces together and explain how VRIs and higher dimensions could be related.
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Re: Could Visual Reorientation Illusions be 4d Related?

Postby Hugh » Wed Apr 07, 2021 9:48 am

I joined Twitter yesterday to learn more about VRIs.

As far as I know, VRIs involve the firing of Head Direction cells in the brain.

I have been following researchers in the field of spatial navigation and hope to learn more about the phenomenon.

https://twitter.com/VRIs_Hugh
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Re: Could Visual Reorientation Illusions be 4d Related?

Postby Hugh » Sun May 30, 2021 12:13 pm

Is there a way to show or animate this fascinating higher dimensional VRI explanation by Phil?

“There's actually a geometric way to explain such a thing. By standing in the same place, looking in the same direction in 3D, it turns out that we have four distinct orientations in 4D, that do not change what we see in 3D. It's quite possible that we can control ourselves in 4D this way, and a VRI flip is one of them.”

Image

Does the answer involve something from this?

Image

I got that from this site:

http://www.cut-the-knot.org/ctk/Tesseract.shtml
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Re: Could Visual Reorientation Illusions be 4d Related?

Postby ICN5D » Wed Jun 02, 2021 1:17 am

Well, maybe, it could be animated. Or, illustrated to some degree which still requires a bit of handwaving and declaring where the analogy works and fails. Maybe the 3D projection of a 3d shape revolving around in 4d? Like a torus, for instance. As the torus revolves, it flattens down to a 2d image at 2 points of the rotation, and expands fully at two other opposing points. Maybe drawing on the idea that the 2d image stays constant, while the rest of the 3d-ness of the shape transforms, sort of shows us how we can revolve around stationary 2-planes like a flag pole. It's a stretch, I dunno ....
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Re: Could Visual Reorientation Illusions be 4d Related?

Postby Hugh » Wed Jun 02, 2021 9:10 am

ICN5D wrote:Well, maybe, it could be animated. Or, illustrated to some degree which still requires a bit of handwaving and declaring where the analogy works and fails. Maybe the 3D projection of a 3d shape revolving around in 4d? Like a torus, for instance. As the torus revolves, it flattens down to a 2d image at 2 points of the rotation, and expands fully at two other opposing points. Maybe drawing on the idea that the 2d image stays constant, while the rest of the 3d-ness of the shape transforms, sort of shows us how we can revolve around stationary 2-planes like a flag pole. It's a stretch, I dunno ....


Interesting possibilities, ICN5D!

The actual flip is like a Necker cube and is instantaneous, so there is less of a revolution and more of an axis interchange.

Like when you see a Necker cube flip it does it all at once and there is no halfway.

Maybe there is a way to show 3 axes of a “3D slice viewpoint” flip various ways to line up with the 4 axes.

I’m thinking we only have a 3D slice limited viewpoint of all higher dimensions because we look along one axis, along with the other two, up/down and right/left so all higher dimensions must be accessed by flipping around the whole of those 3 dimensions as a slice to a whole new orientation at once, with a VRI.

I’m thinking a 90 degree VRI is to an adjacent cube viewpoint and a 180 degree VRI is to the opposite cube viewpoint.

Image

I would love to see this more clearly somehow.
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Re: Could Visual Reorientation Illusions be 4d Related?

Postby Hugh » Wed Jun 02, 2021 9:38 pm

Image

If this is a 2D representation of a perceived 3D Necker Cube which flips orientation along common 1D lines...

I need to show a 3D representation of a 4D Necker Cube which flips orientation along common 2D planes.

Any ideas?
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Re: Could Visual Reorientation Illusions be 4d Related?

Postby Hugh » Sat Jun 05, 2021 3:45 pm

Imagine being 4D in a 4D tetracube, with only a “one 3D slice cube” limited viewpoint of that space. There are all these other different cube viewpoints available within that same space, but they are each only from different directions.

Image
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Re: Could Visual Reorientation Illusions be 4d Related?

Postby Hugh » Sun Jun 06, 2021 11:06 am

In the movie Interstellar, Murphy’s bedroom is shown in the tesseract with time as the 4th dimension. If you substitute space as the 4th dimension, you get a hint at what being inside 4D space with a 3D slice view is like. Kind of like the totality of what you can see with VRIs.

Image
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Re: Could Visual Reorientation Illusions be 4d Related?

Postby Hugh » Tue Jun 08, 2021 9:37 pm

https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/roots-of-unity/nothing-is-more-fun-than-a-hypercube-of-monkeys/

Image

This sculpture is called More Fun than a Hypercube of Monkeys and is explained in the article above.

There is a monkey at the centre of each of the 8 cubes of a tetracube.

As it is rotated, you can see how the monkeys are being rotated around to all of the possible positions within that space.

If we are 4D (or higher) ourselves, in a 4D (or higher) universe, but we only have a limited “3D slice” viewpoint of that space, this is how that 3D slice viewpoint could be turned around within that space to see the various orientations of perceived 3D things from different directions with VRIs.

The idea is that we’re the 4D creature in 4D space but because of our limited 3D viewpoint we can see that perceived 3D space from other directions, and this sculpture shows what the other directions would be which is other orientations of our perceived 3D slice viewpoint with a Necker Cube type of VRI flip.
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Re: Could Visual Reorientation Illusions be 4d Related?

Postby Hugh » Wed Jun 09, 2021 11:28 am

We sit in what appears to be a 3D room as we look all the way around it, but what if there is a higher dimension to it, how would it appear to us? Perhaps if we were to look at it from that higher dimension, we would see it from that other, new direction.
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Re: Could Visual Reorientation Illusions be 4d Related?

Postby Hugh » Sat Jun 12, 2021 12:07 am

I’ve been working on a better way to show how we might be seeing higher dimensions when we experience VRIs. We can see the same thing from different directions! It has always amazed me how that is even possible. What drives me to continue is an effort to help science.

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