Dreaming= 4d?

Discussions about the possibility of consciousness, free will, spirits, deities, religions and so on, and how these might interact with time travel, the Big Bang, many worlds and so on.

Re: Dreaming= 4d?

Postby Secret » Thu Jul 21, 2011 7:45 am

wendy wrote:So it is quite possible to have hyperbolic geometry in dreams, or some of the escherine things, or even four dimensions, but these must also exist in concious thought.

So if you haven't grasped concious 4d or 5d or hyperbolic visualisations, then they're not going to occur in your dreams.

I agree. I still remember that it was just a year ago tesseracts and other 4D shapes started to appear in my dreams, though due to my understanding of higher dimensions is still primitive, what I saw are just replay of the projection simulations I saw when awake. Nevertheless, in one of the dream, I manage to spin a tesseract voluntarily and in any directions.
I also remember I dreamt of a 3 sphere, which is most probably because I had been working on the model in sketchup for 3 days when awake.
Still it seems that my subconscious does not grasp higher dimensions very well, as none of these 4D dreams provide new insights in interpret the shapes properly

If dreams is just a collection of things that we experience when we were awake, then I think precognition (were you can see your entire timeline of your life) is something highly unlikely
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Re: Dreaming= 4d?

Postby ubersketch » Mon Dec 11, 2017 9:45 pm

arcaneidea wrote:Assuming that we "evolve" into other dimensions, we came from the second dimension. If dimensions overlap each other in subsequent realities, than the earth, or the universe for that matter, does exist on the second dimension, just much different than we might imagine. Assuming the big bang was the beginning of all dimensions, we are constantly evolving to be able to cope first with the present dimension then the coming dimension. If our brain evolved to construct a 3d image in our head from 2d information collected by the retina, what evolution puts us into the fourth dimension? I would say dreaming does as it seems we enter a world where time is not present and the natural laws we obey here do not apply there. Anyone want to elaborate?

I don't really see any connection with the 4th dimension. However dreams are only bounded by math so anything can happen. Heck, you might visualize 4d for all I know.
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Postby ubersketch » Sun Dec 24, 2017 2:11 pm

3dftw wrote:First of all, arcaneidea, didn't you say you had an experience with a higher intelligence...after taking shrooms? And secondly who said that the Big Bang is a
scientifically verifiable event
It's a theory, nothing more.
By the way, I thought that it was a well known fact that dreams are just visions of things we've done in a past life, or prophetic visions about things we are to do in future lives. ;)

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Re: Dreaming= 4d?

Postby szluk » Tue Feb 09, 2021 12:16 am

Exotic R4 implies that biological evolution is possible only in 4D. The remaining dimensions are relics of (are defined by) other points created by initial Big Bang singularity. Our perception is an illusion of the moment that passes. Nothing "is" 3D or 4D.
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Re: Dreaming= 4d?

Postby student5 » Thu Dec 07, 2023 7:05 pm

Max88831 wrote:...Now dreaming is very interesting because dreams are not real and are only electrical pulses in our heads that trigger images during sleep. Of course a 4D "person" will definately have larger brain capacity that people in the 3D world so this could make them have dreams and mental images of 4D all the way down to 1D dreams.

That totally depends on your (non-falsifyable) view on what consciousness is and how it relates to the material world. Is consciousness (including dreams) emergent from the material world, then your statement would hold. However, I could say I believe that the material world is a metabolisation of a collective consciousness of which I am a single facet and you would not be able to prove me wrong. I mean, that's the entire reason so many different religions (positivist physical science being one of them) exist and can exist: Some things in life (including what dreams/consciousness is) will always be a mystery. The heuristic I've taken here is "Take whatever as truth if it makes you a better human."

wendy wrote:Dreams are in various ways, a kind of replay of segments in the mind. That is, one might dream of hippos flying, because this is the composition of the segments [hippo] + [flying].
The variations must already exist in the mind: that is, the mind will not create while dreaming, something you could not envisage without dreaming. But the show is not a process of the concious mind, (which is an observer), but the unconcious (which does the filing etc).
Left to its devices, it should put on a show for the concious to watch. It will try out things that are in the 'outer circle' (that is, those combinations that are allowable, but usually rejected).

... It's not hard to count the number of perpendiculars, is it?

Well, whenever dreaming, I've never had the thought "Hmmm, maybe my dream is higher-dimensional, let me count the number of perpendiculars for a minute" :lol:

There are also multiple questions that are getting conflated in this thread:
  • Can you dream in multiple spatial dimensions? How and how to recognize?
  • Are dreams - by nature - higher-dimensional, since time does not exist in the sense it exists in the material world, and thus can be a Euclidean dimension for travel?
  • How does this fit into our universe? Do dreams show us a part of the n-dimensionality of the universe that stays hidden when "awake"?
And the one I would like to answer:
  • Can we dream things that are inconceivable to us? e.g. Dream things that are not a link between things of our (individual) minds?

I would like to make a soft distinction between 3 (maybe 4) different types of dreams here:
  • Normal dreams - everyday dreams
  • Lucid dreams - similar to everyday dreams, but you are in control
  • "Spiritual" Dreams - special dreams that occur by chance and hold special meaning/significance or connection with a "higher" consciousness
  • daydreams/visions - "spiritual" dreams, but then they happen while awake/meditating.
I do very much like the spirit world=5th dimension, dreams=4th dimension thought I saw in this thread. This does give non-spatial meaning to these dimensions, but I don't think it would prohibit anyone from creating geometrical shapes in these dimensions if seen through a different lense?

However, I also think we can time-travel while in a non-physical sense: for example when processing a trauma, that experience from the past stops having its effect in the present. One could say that the event changed, since its (physical) effect on the present changes, but that would rattle quite some assumptions about history. Similarly, when making a plan/manifesting/(imagining /dreaming it as if it is already there) something in the future, you could also say that you travel to the future. Take 16 Guiding principles > Starting from within > No vision, no development: "A vision of who we can become and what a sustainable world would be like, works as a powerful magnet, drawing us to our potential." as an example for travelling-to-the-future.

I don't entirely know whether Wendy thinks we have individual minds or whether they are connected in some sense, thus if someone else thinks of [Flying] and [Hippo], would we be able to dream that? I do think that would be possible with the following hierarchy that dictates probability:
  • Individual mind
  • ancestral mind
  • people you are in a strong relationship with (not necessarily sexual/romantic)
  • other people/the universe

Also, by virtue of daydreams - it being possible to Dream while awake - and time being of a different nature in dreams, I would say time is not necessarily as restrictive as physics describes it to be. I'm not sur eif I'm making a lot of sense here, but what I was also trying to get at was this: Time is the 4th dimension, in our dreams anything is possible, so we could also envision it as a spatial dimension in which we can construct things and travel, then also, Dreams - may - have an effect on the dreams of others - through the sprit world - , but this is a sensitive topic where consent is superduper important.
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