jinydu wrote:So if my understanding is right, the universe does have a finite age and it did come from nothing (not even spacetime). However, I would like to stress that I'm not so sure about this because I have never seen the math behind it.
I don't think you will ever see the math behind it. How can math show that something came from "absolute nothingness"? Mathematical and physical laws come into play once there is something to work with. If there is nothing, how can things follow those laws and appear from nowhere into nowhere making a somewhere?
If there were the laws to begin with, then there is something pre-existing. I'm talking about something coming from "absolute nothingness" here. Also, if there is no time, how can something occur in "absolute nothingness?"
Earlier you made reference to the Second Law of Thermodynamics. Remember the First? Matter cannot be created or destroyed.
House, the paper you cited was an excellent read, covering a lot of different ideas. Section 6 - Start to the universe - is mostly applicable to our discussion.
From section 6.2; "No experimental test can determine the nature of any mechanisms that may be in operation in circumstances where even the concepts of cause and effect are suspect. This comes particularly to the fore in proposing ‘laws of initial conditions for the universe’ — for here we are apparently proposing a theory with only one object. Physics laws are by their nature supposed to cover more than one event, and are untestable if they do not do so."
From section 2.7.2; "to give a true theory of creation
ex nihilo; such efforts however cannot truly “solve” the issue of creation, for they rely on some structures or other (e.g. the elaborate framework of quantum field theory and much of the standard model of particle physics) pre-existing the origin of the universe, and hence themselves requiring explanation."
That sums it up for me.
irockyou wrote:the only way your universe could work is if there were an infinite big bang/big crunchs before this.
Not neccessarily. All that has to work is that the "something" that makes up our universe, has always existed in some form, or that a creator God exists. The only way that your universe could work is if it created itself from absolute nothingness.
irockyou wrote:However, evidence now shows that the Universe will never crunch.
This is far from certain, and doesn't apply to the discussion.
irockyou wrote:If you can prove to me that a universe is bound to crunch some time or another, then I will believe in this "eternal" idea of yours.
If you understood more of what I was saying, you would see that this doesn't apply here.