Big bang, time traveling, that kind of stuff

[Gilles]

Hi guys,

I see you ask yourselves lots of questions here.

Besides the fact that all the answers can actualy be found within yourselves, i've just answered some about black holes and traveling at the speed of light for you, on the other forum.
Bet you'll be interested

[jinydu]

Besides the fact that all the answers can actualy be found within yourselves

This is not the case in science. Or else, what would be the point of building telescopes?

[Gilles]

The point of a telescope, interaction, love, gravity and every other thing you want to upper here, is finding out that you are what you see, you are the universe itself. It's hard to find that out if you can't experience...

[jinydu]

The point of a telescope, interaction, love, gravity and every other thing you want to upper here, is finding out that you are what you see, you are the universe itself. It's hard to find that out if you can't experience...

That is not science. Scientific theories must be precise, testable and unambiguous in their claims. They begin with certain well-defined postulates, i.e. basic assumptions, such as "The vector sum of all forces on an object is proportional to its rate of change of momentum (in Newtonian Mechanics)" and "All observers measure the speed of light in a vacuum to have the same value (Special Relativity)." A vague and untestable claim such as "you are what you see" would never be a postulate in any serious physical theory.

[Gilles]

I've been looking for the word scientific on this forum, but I's only been uppered by the guests. This forum hasn't got the intention of bieng scientific.

That means saying something isn't scientific is as much an argument as saying something isn't written in the bible.

[wendy]

Four dimensions is hardly material for "science" because the thing makes no call down to a testable "reality". That is, you can't make a proposition about the way four-dimensions works, and go outside and test it, like you can chemicals or black holes or plate tectonics.

At best it is mathematics. One can play off geometry and mechanics. But these ultimately are axiom-based, and you must be careful you pick axioms that are relevant.

At worst, we might encounter all sorts of spiritualism and unknowns, rather like those folk who create imaginary continents to place their utopias at. Spirits and Gods, formerly frequenting the clouds, now have moved on to other dimensions.

Black holes are for example, not magically revealed in four dimensions or five or twenty-eight. A black hole is an abstraction in space, and is every much three-dimensional as we are. What we find hard, (especially those of us without metric graph-paper), is the heavy distortions of space needed to accomidate this feature.

Literature in 4D goes back well into the 1800's. But it's not an easy thing to grasp, and one has to keep one's wits about one.

There are plenty of good websites around that look at some aspects of four dimensions, like the six platonic polychora. But as for "science", there is no things for us to make meaningful predicitions: we have to calculate the result.

W

[houserichichi]

Well put, Wendy.

[jinydu]

Nevertheless, mathematical theories on the fourth dimension are based on a set of well-defined axioms, from which we prove theorems using well-defined rules of logic and inference.

On the other hand, baseless speculation often lacks a set of precise postulates, and has no systematic method for drawing conclusions based on those postulates.

[Gilles]

Then again, if you invent your own base, everything is based.

Don't forget that maths have been invented by mankind aswell...

[jinydu]

Of course, you would have to be prepared to state your assumptions clearly, explain why you think they are useful and/or accurate and/or interesting to study. Then, you would have to show how further claims follow logically from those assumptions, rather than just piling on more assumptions.

[Gilles]

Yes ok, I agree (finaly), but I'll leave that to others.

I'd rather blow up some dust at forums :wink: