2D time

[swirl gyro]

Can someone explain what 2D time might be like? I've been thinking about it on & off for years, and I can't picture it (whereas 4D is easy to picture).

In the arm wrestling thread, someone mentioned it could enable being in 2 places at once, but I'm not sure why that would be. Quantum mechanics says an atom can be in 2 places at once... does that imply we might have 2D (or greater) time at quantum scales?

I will not pretend to understand entropy, but how might it be affected by 2D time? I believe entropy is said to be like an "arrow"... would it lose it's arrow-like nature in a 2D medium where things have room to turn around? Could you just "walk" back to the point where the cup did not fall & shatter?

[RQ]

Hmm interesting...

2D time? Property of the universe. Whatever it came to be, no questions need be asked, unless you use analogy from 3D, which would mean that perhaps time would be different for 2D people. I guess Einstein's theories still apply for 2D using analogy. Not for 1D. Then again, just a property of the universe as Aale said.
Quantum mechanics in fact states that an atom can't be in two places at once.

[elpenmaster]

2d time:

2d time is basically the same as what happen in quantum mechanics before you see something: it is in many places at the same time

imagine a coordinate plane. the y-axis represents normal time, and the x-axis represents 2d time. by moving along x-axis, you get to different situations that could have happened. for example, if you had never found this forum, you would be doing something different that you are right now. this reality is at x=3, say, and our reality is at x=0. so if you go through 2d time, or sideways in time, you would get to alternate reality at the same time.

right now, say, we are at x=0 and y=2004.7161145 to go sidways in time, go to x=3. then you get to alternate reality. in this alternat reality, the phyisical things are slightly different. for example, what might be at (5,7) might also be the same as what is at (7,9). in this case, the line y=x+2 connects physical realities that are the same in different times. if this line connecting physical realities of the same time was x=12, then nothing along the alternate reality of x=12 would change as time went on. if this line was at y=12, then all alternate realities at time 12 would be physiacally the same

this is at least how i imagine 2d time.

[PWrong]

The main difference between time and a spatial dimension is that entropy increases through time. Since our brain uses energy and increases entropy, we percieve time as going forward.

It doesn't really make sense to say that entropy increases in two directions. If you draw a graph of entropy versus time, for instance, the graph would just go up. But with two time dimensions, you need another definition.

If we label them T1 and T2, then we could establish a formula, like
entropy^2 is proportional to T1^2+T2^2. Then you'd have circles gradually going upwards.

I'm not sure what happens next though. :?

[elpenmaster]

here is my theory:

using the graph that i talked about, the y-axis measuring normal time and the x-axis measuring quantum time (alternate realities), we maybe can arrange these alternate realities so that as x increases, the entropy in that quantum reality increases faster. thus anyline connecting two points of equal entropy would have to have a negative or undefined slope.

this could be used to predict the furutre. assume we can somehow see all quantum realitis everywhere in time that have already happened (not the future) so say we want to be at the center of this, so our quantum rereality is the line x=0, and we are currently at time 3 (y=3). say we looked back and saw that the time of (6,-2), (4,0), and (2,2) all have the same entropy, and thus virtually the same events. the line y=-x+4 connects these points, and that line crosses x=0 (our quantum universe) at y=4. so we can asssume that (0,4) is the same as all the other points. since (0,4) is in the future of our quantum universe, if we know what happens at the other points and thus know what happens at (0,4), we would know the future!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

now take this graph and make it into a peice of metal in three dimensions. entropy increases as the plane goes downward. like a ball can only roll downhill, our univres reality can only go in the direction of greater entropy
each x=something is a quantum universe. maybe these become more numerous as time goes on, because of greater quantum choices. so each vertical line (x=something) goes downhill as y increases. these lines are all right next to each other, and line go downhill more quickly as x increases.

so the ball of our reality rolls downhill, on our quantum universe timeline, toward the direction of greater entropy. could this ball of reality switch quantum universes somehow, and jump to one where entropy is greater? is this a quantum leap?

[Geosphere]

Since our brain uses energy and increases entropy,

Our brain increases entropy?

Can you elaborate on that?

[PWrong]

I think it's one of the laws of thermodynamics, or related to them. Entropy is like a measure of disorder. There's some law that states that it always increases.

This is the analogy Hawking uses to explain why we feel like time flows forwards. He says we don't know enough about the brain to explain it, but we do know about computers. Computers must have the same "arrow of time" as us, because otherwise they could "remember" tomorrow's stockmarket prices. When a computer stores something to memory, it uses electricity, and releases heat, thereby increasing disorder and entropy. If it could use somehow decrease entropy while storing information, then it could remember things that happened in the future. Unfortunately, that would violate thermodynamics. So I guess if we could build a perpetual motion machine, we could also build a time machine.

A human brain works the same way as a computer and anything else. It uses energy with low entropy, stores information, and releases energy with high entropy.

For 2D time, maybe you'd need two different kinds of entropy.

[brasileiro]

Very interesting topic... I'll have to look into it...

[houserichichi]

There is something called F-theory that required 10 spatial dimensions and 2 time, but as far as I know it hasn't gained any popularity in years. I won't lie, though, I couldn't tell you how you'd experience 2 dimensions of time...and I'd put a lot of money against anyone who said they could.

[wendy]

You can always look at the "Hyper" thread at

http://www.geocities.com/os2fan2/gloss/index.html

There i construct various hyperspaces from 2D, and look at the result from 3D.