Astronauts in space are not under the effects of gravity, and this in itself creates an imbalance.
The thing is that if you are seeing something that you recognise as living in the same chorix as you normally deal with, you are not invoking extra dimensions. It;s all in the same space.
Now picture if you are in that 3d cube viewpoint, and you are rotated along with the cube. You would end up facing a 180 degree opposite direction. What was on your left and right, would still be on your left and right. What was in front and behind you, would still be in front and behind you. But, relatively speaking, if you were originally facing north, north would have become south, and east would have become west. Your 3d viewpoint would have been flipped into its mirror image, and you along with it. You can see here how one can see the same 2d plane of vision from a different direction.
Hugh wrote:8. Here's where I think that the VRI fits in. It would be possible, in that higher dimensional space (and if we're higher dimensional too), to look in two different perpendicular directions, in two glances, and see the same 2d plane of vision from each eye, but from different orthogonal directions.
It's not just your viewpoint. If you were actually flipped out into the 4th dimension, you'd be laterally inverted. If you were right-handed, you'd become left handed. Any writing you had on you would be backwards. All your organs would be on the wrong side, which wouldn't be a problem, but it might feel weird.
Unfortunately, you wouldn't experience it for long. A lot of molecules have completely different properties from their mirror image, including DNA. So I assume you'd die pretty soon after being flipped over in 4D.![]()
Hmmm... I'm coming late to this thread and trying to understand what you mean by 2d extending plane of vision.
When you say 'each eye' above, do you mean 'each eye during each of the two glances' or do you mean 'the same eye gets the same plane of vision during each of the two glances'?
Take, for example, a first glance where +/- x is right/left, +/- y is up/down, +/- z is forward/backward. Make the second glance +/- x is right/left, +/- y is up/down, +/- w is forward/backward. In most instances, nothing in your scene will be in both the first and second glance.
Take an example stepped down a notch. Cut a slit in a piece of paper. Orient the slit vertically in front of you. Look through it for your first glance. For your second glance, turn you and the piece of paper 90-degrees to your right, and look again. Probably the floor and ceiling are the only two objects that are in both of your glances.
Hugh wrote:Take an example stepped down a notch. Cut a slit in a piece of paper. Orient the slit vertically in front of you. Look through it for your first glance. For your second glance, turn you and the piece of paper 90-degrees to your right, and look again. Probably the floor and ceiling are the only two objects that are in both of your glances.
With the VRI flip, you don't physically move, you just look at the same thing from another direction, which I think might be possible in 4d space. Like Aale said "Tetronians will not be able to see within a trionian body, they see the lightrays reflecting of a body just in a direction more then we trionians do!"
The point that I was trying to make is that unless you move, changing the viewing direction will change what you're looking at.
The trouble is that we don't see a plane.
There is no "plane of view", that can be equally viewed from the x or z direction.
It's like viewing the rooms of a house from standing on the floor, against viewing it from above.
The thing is, that if you are seeing a hedrix (2d angulum) of identical objects, you are in the same chorix (3d space).
Hugh wrote:Is it true that both w and z are orthogonal to the same x and y plane in 4d space?
Are w and z both orthogonal to each other as well?
Can one look along either w or z, and see the same x and y plane in 4d space?
Wouldn't those two viewing directions be orthogonal to each other?
Then, you could have all of the objects in your view-"cone" whether you're looking in the z-direction or in the w-direction. But, it requires a view-"cone" that's fully 4-d. I thought your "2-d extending plane" was only 3-d.
These lines intersect a plane, but this does not mean that objects lie in the plane.
The thing is, that if one were to suddenly move into the w plane, all one would see is, eg w,y,z at x=0. This measn that the object at (5,1,0) would not be seen.
Even if it were true that there was a visual plane at x=0, it would look the same regardless of where one looks at it from the perpendicular.
It would be rather like a maypole. It looks the same from the north as it does from the east.
well those restrictions I spoke off on that sphere and cylinder were gravity. Lets just hypothesis that it is also the restriction in our 4th realm (such as if the universe was standing on the surface of a large 4D object. That object would have immense gravity!) As our 4D selves walk all over the surface of this 4D object and don't have the ability to leap out of it's gravity we would need another 4D object to push us up off of it. We would be restricted to 3 axes then and would show why we can't rotate about the 4th axis.
Now say you leave some of the forces of gravity behind. This gives us just a little bit more freedom in movement in the 4th realm. Maybe minor, but what if this small change allowed us to shake just a little tiny bit in the 4th dimension. This could possibly (REALLY hypothetical on such a large level) cause the VRI... possibly causing a distortion of the 3D image in front of us altering the images just enough that it confuses the brain and it interprets images it never was confronted with before disorienting you.
when this occurs it could cause VRI. Just like most visualizations of 4 spacial dimensions show a 3D object inverting on itself it... this would be seen as flipped directions.
I couldn't really tell though exactly because I don't fully understand VRI.
No i've had it occur a few times... it's just my understanding of them are limited. And never thought about it enough to want it to happen.
You end up being able to flip around your directional view four different ways eventually, here on earth that is. It's like being in a whole new space each time.
I first need to clarify a bit the phenomenon. There was said that it is as if looking from a different angle. But the eyes still see the same image. So I would assume, that the angle is still the same. But the feeling of moving ahead has turned into the feeling of moving to the left. The feeling is as if you would move to the left with your head turned to the left (in case of 90 degree flip). Is this correct?
As child I had often the impression when lying in bed (with closed eyes) that the room would be rotated about 180° and only by opening the eyes I could readjust my imagination with the reality (dont know whether this has something to do with the VRI.)
And I also know by meditating friends that there could emerge the feeling of being upside down, though sitting in meditation position.
i thought all the time that Hugh was talking about actually seeing things flipped, while knowing that they are not. a case of paraconsistent logic, allowing working with paradox, but he has to clarify.
you sure 4 exactly and no more ?
what's the sight that offers itself from the centre that's in the middle of these 4 ? can you try this ? can you centre yourself at that point ? if so, you end up with what Aale de Winkel called tetronian perspective.
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