that's not a crime to alter your own consciousness.
irockyou wrote: In other words, you would have seen the insides and the outsides of the chair at once.
duraultra wrote:irockyou -irockyou wrote: In other words, you would have seen the insides and the outsides of the chair at once.
Actually, I think I did see that. I believe I mentioned everything looked imploded and exploded at once. Exploded is probably the wrong word because it commonly refers to something spontaneously combusting and getting bigger. I do believe I was seeing more than normal but nothing was necessarily bigger, but that's besides the point. What I am trying to say is when I said imploded, I meant I was seeing the chair inside-out, or at least I thought I was. Yet I still saw every other aspect of the chair that I mentioned earlier. I'm definitely not claiming I saw the fourth dimension, but with that said, does it seem more likely?
bo198214 wrote:Looks like jinydu takes the "mindless repeating" drug.
is just a supposition, it has not much to do with logic, actually it is flawed.LSD is a hallucinogen; it causes the brain to perceive things that are not there. So no, it is not a genuine 4D experience; it is just the brain malfunctioning.
irockyou wrote:Looks like Bo is taking the "I'm gonna pretend like the logic you just pointed out doesn't exist, and pretend I'm still winning" drug.
First of all, what does this mean:
"the fact that LSD was involved casts serious doubts on claims that said things actually exist"
Which claims are you speaking of? I never claimed to actually have seen in 4D, if that's what you meant.
irockyou wrote:Looks like Bo is taking the "I'm gonna pretend like the logic you just pointed out doesn't exist, and pretend I'm still winning" drug.
irockyou wrote:You forgot my second point; just because you see every 3d angle of the chair, even if both inside and outside, you still didn't see 4 dimensionally. 4 dimensionally would have been a completely different angle altogether; one that you have never experienced before. Which is impossible with our limited 3d physiology. I'm not accusing you of declaring that you saw the fourth dimension, but its definitely not more likely; it's more along the lines of impossible.
It does matter. I think my logic was quite clear:
1) Hallucinogens cause the brain to perceive things that don't really exist.
2) LSD is a hallucinogen.
3) Therefore, perceptions that occur under the influence of LSD do not correspond to things that actually exist, or at the very least, the fact that LSD was involved casts serious doubts on claims that said things actually exist.
This argument is similar to the argument for why one should be very skeptical that what one sees in dreams has any basis in reality.
Furthermore, do you have any objective evidence that hallucinogens, or what you call "perception-altering" drugs actually enhance perception? Improved results on eyesight exams, for instance?
The US National Institute of Drug Abuse wrote:LSD (lysergic acid diethylamide) is one of the major drugs making up the hallucinogen class of drugs. Hallucinogens cause hallucinations—profound distortions in a person’s perception of reality. Hallucinogens cause their effects by disrupting the interaction of nerve cells and the neurotransmitter serotonin. Distributed throughout the brain and spinal cord, the serotonin system is involved in the control of behavioral, perceptual, and regulatory systems, including mood, hunger, body temperature, sexual behavior, muscle control, and sensory perception.
Under the influence of hallucinogens, people see images, hear sounds, and feel sensations that seem real but do not exist. Some hallucinogens also produce rapid, intense emotional swings. One of the most potent mood-changing chemicals, LSD, was discovered in 1938 and is manufactured from lysergic acid, which is found in ergot, a fungus that grows on rye and other grains.
R. R. Griffiths & W. A. Richards & U. McCann & R. Jesse wrote:(in the journal of psychopharmacology 27 May, 2006)
The psychological effects of psilocybin, which are similar to other classical serotonergically mediated hallucinogens [lysergic acid diethylamide (LSD), mescaline, and N,N-dimethyltryptamine (DMT)], include significant alterations in perceptual, cognitive, affective, volitional, and somatesthetic functions, including visual and auditory sensory changes, difficulty in thinking, mood fluctuations, and dissociative phenomena (Isbell 1959; Wolbach et al. 1962; Rosenberg et al. 1964).
irockyou wrote:I WASN'T TALKING ABOUT JINYDU (though I do think he's on to something with his point), I'M TALKING ABOUT MINE. You know, the one everyone ignored?irockyou wrote:You forgot my second point; just because you see every 3d angle of the chair, even if both inside and outside, you still didn't see 4 dimensionally. 4 dimensionally would have been a completely different angle altogether; one that you have never experienced before. Which is impossible with our limited 3d physiology. I'm not accusing you of declaring that you saw the fourth dimension, but its definitely not more likely; it's more along the lines of impossible.
dictionary.com wrote:Intersecting at or forming right angles.
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