Using artificial universes as radar

[elpenmaster]

Would it be possible to create universes and use them as radar? Universes can expand faster than the speed of light, so we could use it as ultrafast sonar system. all we would have to do is create a universe and shoot it off. the universe would expand at a predetermined rate, and bounce off objects. maybe we coud use it to find planets around other suns. maybe we could "program" the universe to bounce off only certain things, like terrestrial planets, and then find out where these planets are!

[jinydu]

Well there is no observational proof that other universes exist at all. Furthermore, in order for two universes to collide, they would need to be in the same 3-space. And why would you expect a universe to "bounce back" after colliding with something in another universe?

[mghtymoop]

what the hell do you think a universe is elpenmaster, some kind of electromagnetic wave is how your describing it, i think you need to rethink your definition of a universe, and perhaps work out what the multiverse is given that definition

[elpenmaster]

Why shouldnt a universe be like an electromagnetic wave? after all, it can be created, destroyed, itspreads out, and it can come back.
in theory we could shoot a universe off just a tad kata or whatever to this one and give it just enough masss to expand x lightyear and then come back. if said universe comes back a few milliseconds sooner than expected, then there was more mass on our side of its farthest reach than on the other side, and if it came back later, there was more mass just on the far side of the turnaround point. so, it would come back in different times at different parts of it. by programming many universes to go at different distances, we could make a map of the universe
you shouldnt be close-minded :wink:

[jinydu]

Again, why do you think a universe would bounce back after hitting something?

[elpenmaster]

Again, why do you think a universe would bounce back after hitting something?

it wouldnt bounce back. we would just put enough matter into it to make it expand to, say, ten light years and then come back. if it comes back a little later than calculated, it means that some matter in our universe just beyond 10 lightyears slowed its despansion, and vica versa

[RQ]

This comes down to the weak and strong anthropic principles which basically state why we are in a universe with 3 extended spatial dimensions.

Weak anthropic principles states that if we weren't in this univese, we would be in another one, and ask why we aren't in this one, or some other one. It says that all observable laws from one place to any other is the same in the universe.

The strong anthropic principle has several propositions.

1)some regions of a universe may be separate from the universe and have different laws of observation.

2)Some regions in this or other universes may be entirely its own and be a perfectly closed system with respect to us.

3)Though the universe seems the same from our angle of perception in all directions, this may or may not be the case for other positions in the universe.

4)There can be no set of laws that can be either 100% accurate, nor can there be a GUT.

All 3 of those arguments are perfectly fine, but

1) if those certain spots in the universe were not subject to the same laws as in all other regions of the universe, then they would have been noticed earlier.

2)If there are such regions, then they do not affect any observational data due to their definition.

3)Again, this would have either been shown by the way we observe the universe, and affect the picture of science as a whole, or perhaps it has and we have modified our observations with it, or our space probes would have noticed something such as the microwave background being different from its position.

4)This perhaps will never be known, but science is working towards a GUT and has been successful so far.

In all, all this could either be a mockery by God, or just they way we observe the universe, but by either, the strong anthropic principle collapses to the weak one, so sorry, no universe radars elpen.

(by the way, aren't sonars sound waves?)

[houserichichi]

I'm just going to reply to a bit of everyone's stuff. Sorry everything's out of order...

1) if those certain spots in the universe were not subject to the same laws as in all other regions of the universe, then they would have been noticed earlier.

Not necessarily, what if these regions of the universe that adhere to different laws of physics are incredibly small, or what if they're very distant? We haven't seen the whole universe by any stretch, and never will at this rate, what with expansion and all.

Why shouldnt a universe be like an electromagnetic wave? after all, it can be created, destroyed, itspreads out, and it can come back.

If a universe is created or destroyed where does the energy within go? That's a contradiction of the conservation of energy assuming there is no multiverse in the first place (big assumption, yes I know), but there is no experimental evidence to suggest otherwise (and this is the one time I'll say I prefer experiment over theory).

Universes can expand faster than the speed of light, so we could use it as ultrafast sonar system.

Universes can expand faster than light, yes. However, because the universe isn't an electromagnetic wave (that's matter, not spacetime) it would have to be an expansion of spacetime itself with no propogation of information - that is, nothing INSIDE the new universe could travel faster than light. So, even if your universe hit a planet lightyears away, it would take double the time for a particle sent from the "center" of the new universe to hit the new planet in OUR universe and bounce back so we'd know about it (assuming the new universe was created somewhere around earth). Wow, did that make sense? I can rewrite it if it doesn't.

in order for two universes to collide, they would need to be in the same 3-space.

Not at all - if two 3+1-dimensional universes exist within a higher dimensional space, they could easily collide analogously to balloons in the air. No need to limit ourselves to what we observe unless we're talking about experimental evidence...in which case two universes could never collide because experiment only tells us there's one universe.

mghtymoop
planespace citizen

I joined before mghtymoop...I think I should at least be an ambassador to planespace .

in theory we could shoot a universe off just a tad kata

This is just me complaining, but I wish folks would stop using the ana/kata descriptions for direction in 4D...it's just a little silly as they're not universally accepted.

(by the way, aren't sonars sound waves?)

Shhhhhhh!!!!! :wink:

[RQ]

I'm just going to reply to a bit of everyone's stuff. Sorry everything's out of order...

1) if those certain spots in the universe were not subject to the same laws as in all other regions of the universe, then they would have been noticed earlier.

Not necessarily, what if these regions of the universe that adhere to different laws of physics are incredibly small, or what if they're very distant? We haven't seen the whole universe by any stretch, and never will at this rate, what with expansion and all.

In that case they are negligent and if they aren't subject to the laws of this universe they have no place and would be separated. If there is one such small negligent sphere of nonuniversal properties, then there would be no laws and order as there is, since there would have been other small and negligent spheres interfering with what we observe.

Again, there may or may not be a GUT theory, so a black hole might as well be the foot of some tetronian, but science is trying to achieve theories and if that fails, then it's up to God.

Why shouldnt a universe be like an electromagnetic wave? after all, it can be created, destroyed, itspreads out, and it can come back.

If a universe is created or destroyed where does the energy within go? That's a contradiction of the conservation of energy assuming there is no multiverse in the first place (big assumption, yes I know), but there is no experimental evidence to suggest otherwise (and this is the one time I'll say I prefer experiment over theory).

The 1st law of thermodynamics does not apply when the universe is at an infinitely small and dense state. This is how the big bang was formed.

Universes can expand faster than the speed of light, so we could use it as ultrafast sonar system.

Universes can expand faster than light, yes. However, because the universe isn't an electromagnetic wave (that's matter, not spacetime) it would have to be an expansion of spacetime itself with no propogation of information - that is, nothing INSIDE the new universe could travel faster than light. So, even if your universe hit a planet lightyears away, it would take double the time for a particle sent from the "center" of the new universe to hit the new planet in OUR universe and bounce back so we'd know about it (assuming the new universe was created somewhere around earth). Wow, did that make sense? I can rewrite it if it doesn't.

If you mean that by the expansion of the universe, the objects inside cannot move faster than light, then that depends on your universe's properties. As of our universe, Since the universe is so immense, it increases only by 5-10% per year or something like that, and the distant between the galaxies becomes greater, thus shrinking the galaxies, since light would travel the distance slower and thus reduce its speed in a vacuum. The universe will not expand beyond or at infinity if that's what you're concerned about.

in order for two universes to collide, they would need to be in the same 3-space.

Not at all - if two 3+1-dimensional universes exist within a higher dimensional space, they could easily collide analogously to balloons in the air. No need to limit ourselves to what we observe unless we're talking about experimental evidence...in which case two universes could never collide because experiment only tells us there's one universe.

Higher dimensional space cannot exist within lower dimensional space, or at least not in this universe. Neither can lower dimensional space. The universe is either 3Space or isn't at all. Look at some more info on the 3rd or 4th page of this forum.

mghtymoop
planespace citizen

I joined before mghtymoop...I think I should at least be an ambassador to planespace .

You get to planespace when you hit 256 posts.

in theory we could shoot a universe off just a tad kata

This is just me complaining, but I wish folks would stop using the ana/kata descriptions for direction in 4D...it's just a little silly as they're not universally accepted.

A 3D universe cannot be shot ana or kata.

(by the way, aren't sonars sound waves?)

Shhhhhhh!!!!! :wink: