Is flipping a particle in 3D along a 4D axis the same as its

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Is flipping a particle in 3D along a 4D axis the same as its

Postby Secret » Mon May 23, 2011 2:35 pm

mirror image?

I'm not talking about macroscopic particles, but things within quantum mechanics.
Do flipping e.g. an electron along a 4D axis has the same property as one which is the mirror image of the ordinary electron?
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Re: Is flipping a particle in 3D along a 4D axis the same as

Postby anderscolingustafson » Mon May 23, 2011 7:52 pm

Yes flipping an electron would be the same as it's mirror image. It would turn the electron into a positron and it would turn a proton into an anti proton. So flipping a 3d subatomic particle along a 4d axis would turn matter into anti matter or anti matter into matter.
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Re: Is flipping a particle in 3D along a 4D axis the same as

Postby wendy » Wed May 25, 2011 10:10 am

You can try this out by flipping a clock face (on the table), in 3d. Turning it upside down (which is flipping in height), makes a mirror image of the clock.
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Re: Is flipping a particle in 3D along a 4D axis the same as

Postby Hugh » Tue Jun 21, 2011 10:03 pm

From the reference frame of the clock itself, it was looking "up", then "down"...

Relative to itself, its' right is still on its' right, and left is still on its' left, it has just been turned around in 3d space, not really flipped into its mirror image...

I'm wondering about the experience of a 3d object turning in a 4th dimension.

Relative to itself, would it still not be the same? Its' right and left would still be on the same sides as they were before the turn wouldn't they?
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Re: Is flipping a particle in 3D along a 4D axis the same as

Postby Mrrl » Wed Jun 22, 2011 4:04 am

Yes, relative to itself the object will be the same. But it will find itself in the mirrored Universe (like character of "Doorways in the Sand" by R.Zelazny).
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Re: Is flipping a particle in 3D along a 4D axis the same as

Postby Hugh » Wed Jun 22, 2011 8:58 am

Mrrl wrote:Yes, relative to itself the object will be the same. But it will find itself in the mirrored Universe (like character of "Doorways in the Sand" by R.Zelazny).

What about a 4D object flipping along a 4D axis...

Its right and left would remain the same relative to itself, and its universe would remain the same... it would just be facing the opposite direction, is this right?

Just like a 3D object flipping in 3D only changes its orientation...
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Re: Is flipping a particle in 3D along a 4D axis the same as

Postby Mrrl » Wed Jun 22, 2011 10:31 am

When you are facing North and look in the mirror, your reflection has the same up, down, left and right directions as you are. In its Universe it's facing North as well. But if it steps out of mirror to our Universe, it will find that it facing South, but left and right as same as they were (East and West respectively). So our Universe looks mirrored for it.
The same will be true for 4D creature if you flip it in one direction.

But if you flip 3D object along 4th direction, it will mean nothing to it. Take 2D drawing on the glass and put a mirror behind it. You will see that reflection of this drawing in the same as the drawing itself, all directions in the glass (p, down, left, right) are not changed.
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Re: Is flipping a particle in 3D along a 4D axis the same as

Postby Hugh » Wed Jun 22, 2011 3:20 pm

I appreciate the time you are taking to respond to these questions Mrrl, as this is fascinating to me, but not fully understood...

Mrrl wrote:But if you flip 3D object along 4th direction, it will mean nothing to it.


Would it notice a change in its orientation?

According to this page:

http://www.maa.org/editorial/knot/tesseract.html

Alex Bogomolny states "Travelling in 4D may have a milder effect on a 3D body than turning it inside out. It may only change its orientation."

Is it possible, for example, that for a 3D body facing North, that after a 4D flip, relative to itself, it would still see its right and left the same, and still be facing North, but North is now in a direction that South used to be in?

...and would East have become West as well?
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Re: Is flipping a particle in 3D along a 4D axis the same as

Postby Mrrl » Wed Jun 22, 2011 6:59 pm

Actually you can't flip your 4th dimension when travel in 5D. You need at least 5D for that and even in that case you'll flip 4th and 5th dimensions in the same time. Changing orientation during 4D travel is when you return to your native 3D space but find that 4th direction and, say, South-North direction are flipped. In this case you'll see mirrored space around you.
Another case is if you travel in Klein-bottle-like non-orientable 4D space. Then you can return with flipped just 4th direction - and your 3D orientation will not be changed. In this case you'll notice nothing - at least geometrically (other physical properties may be changed - we don't know about them. For example, you may get negative gravitational mass :) )
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Re: Is flipping a particle in 3D along a 4D axis the same as

Postby Hugh » Thu Jun 23, 2011 4:11 am

Mrrl wrote:Changing orientation during 4D travel is when you return to your native 3D space but find that 4th direction and, say, South-North direction are flipped. In this case you'll see mirrored space around you.

Mrrl, there is a phenomenon that people experience called a "Visual Reorientation Illusion" (VRI) that instantly flips around one's perceived orientational bearings... North becomes South and East becomes West. You may have heard of people getting "turned around" in their bearing sense and "lost".

I've experienced VRIs since childhood, and can cognitively make them happen.

I've always thought that it might be related to the possible existence of higher dimensional space.

Here is a diagram I've made up that illustrates how one can hold two mirrors together, look at the intersection, see a 180 degree rotated around viewpoint of the room that they are in, (in the double reflection), then do a cognitive 180 degree VRI into the "other room".

What happens is that after the flip, North is now where South was, and East is where West was, but relative to the person, North, South, East and West are all exactly the same... It is as if the whole world has been rotated around a central axis, and you're now in the "double reflected" space...

In your opinion, could this phenomenon be possibly related to higher dimensional space?
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