Fred's problems

[Jay]

Okay, so what about these ideas.

I'm assuming that the magnetic and electric transverse waves can't overlap. In 2d, when the electron goes down to a lower energy level, it doesn't release one photon, but two. They both go off in opposite directions perpendicular to the standing circular wave.

In 4d, if there is no 3rd perpendicular foce, maybe the waves constantly jump to a new axis. It could start out with the amplitude of the E wave going up and down on the y-axis, while the M wave goes up and down on the x axis. Then, all of a sudden, the E wave could switch to travelling along the z-axis, and the M could go on the y-axis. Meanwhile both waves are always traveling some along w-axis.

I hope this makes some sort of sense...

[alkaline]

Yes you're right, they can't overlap - if they did, they would become a single wave together.

Every direction is perpendicular to a standing circular wave. Imagine a circle shrinking and growing very rapidly, but only a distance that is a small part of its diameter.

I don't see why the E and M waves would randomly jump to new axes. I think it would make more sense if they just had some kind of orientation and kept with that orientation after emission. It would be like a transverse wave without a perpendicular part - it would be oriented. But then again, Transverse waves with two parts are oriented anyway.

I still think there should be a third force though. I don't think it has to be a force that we already have, either. I think it would be a new force all its own. It would work just like electricity and magnetism - it would be involved with electrons, and it would be involved with attraction/repulsion. Only its direction and relation to the other two forces would be different than how they work in the third dimension.

[alkaline]

Until we come up with a full name for the force, we can temporarily call it the "W-force", where the W hints at the fourth coordinate in an x,y,z,w coordinate system. "Z-force" sounds kind of lame and it hints at the z coordinate so that does no good. "X-force" sounds a little lame too.

[Jay]

Is it possible for the third wave to be another magnetic one? The opposite of the first one. And maybe the attractive forces between them could cause them to switch axes (plural of axis?). Depending on whichever one was on a certain axis, that would be the magnetic property of the atom.

I think the only way that magnetic relationships between 4d atoms would remain the same is if their EM waves fluctuated in charge in sync.

[alkaline]

yeah, possibly it could be a second magnetic force. M2 or something. I don't really know what you mean by switch axes. All three would be perpendicular to each other. You would use some kind of handed-rule to determine the orientation of one to any other.

[Jay]

Ignoring the Electric wavelength, I figured it would be like this:

M+
M+
M+
o M- M- M-

And then the force of attraction between the two waves would cause them to attract each other, until they met at at a 45 degree angle in the middle. However, instead of cancelling out, momentum might make them keep going, so that they went past each other into their new perpendicular orientations. I figureed this could all happen in a nanosecond, and it would look like this afterwards:

M-
M-
M-
o M+ M+ M+

And they could keep fluctuating back and forth like that. And I was also thinking that maybe one axis would be dominant over the other, so that instead of the charges canceling out, the overall charge of the wavelength would depend on whichever one was in the y-axis (random pick). So everything in the 4d universe would be fluctuating back and forth between positive and negative charges, but in sync so that these fluctuations didn't disrupt anything. You know, so that two objects wouldn't go careening toward each other one second and then flying away the next.

[alkaline]

it sounds very interesting, but it doesn't sound as stable as a system where the two M-forces stayed put where they started. As a rule, any system will take the most stable rout if it exists. BTW, the two "charges" of magnetism are north and south. The other magnetism would have something like east and west, or marp and garp. The system you described had only a negative and a positive, which means they are two charges of the same force, not separate forces. Different forces don't repel or attract each other, they affect the orientation of each other.

[RQ]

perhaps this way we can make better heating.

[papernuke]

But if the jellyfish's blood is pumped around its body, then the veins have to be really small so they can doubble back on eachothers to get back to the heart... and their heart can only have an entrance and exit. And anyways, how would the jellyfish eat? Because if the food went from the mouth to the butt (if they have one) wouldn't it still split the body in two different parts?

[Hugh]

I like the ideas from Jay and Alkaline on page 1 of this thread (back in 2003!):

What about a body based on semipermeable membranes?

The nervous system could run throughout the body, although things like air, and nutrients could pass through the material it was made of. I don't think you would need a digestive sytem or circulatory system if air and food naturally passed throughout the body by diffusion.

Hmm, maybe that would work. The structure would have to be strong enough to hold the bionian up, but permeable enough so that the molecules could make their way through the structure. The molecules couldn't go in too large of groups, or the structure would be split apart - the molecules could only go one or two at a time.

[batmanmg]

does gravity even effect them... don't they have 0 mass

[PWrong]

does gravity even effect them... don't they have 0 mass

Nope. In 3D, mass is density * volume. In 2D, it's density * area.

[faranya]

I'm guessing all these problems might be the reason we exist in 3D...

[Russ1953]

Alkaline, I did a model with a jellfish and a gold tooth filling (not mine) and was able to receive radio transmissions/vibrations audibly without speakers. The precedure was placing the fish in a tank and tying the filling with a gold thread and inserting it into the membrane of the jellyfish. The tank reverberated with sound at a very high vibration and sounds (though barely) intelligible emanated. But the vibration was very evident. I could'nt figure out how to send though. Although now I think I could with a parabolic dish and microphone. He he

[PWrong]

Alkaline rarely posts here anymore.

What was the point of your experiment with the jellyfish and the gold tooth, and what does it have to do with this old thread?

[Russ1953]

We'll just let you take control of our thoughts here with your dismissiveness.

[PWrong]

I apologise again. I'd still like to know what the experiment was for though.

[Center]

I read where someone thought the 4th dimension was synaesthisia, a cross modal effect of the senses - that's what got me into the fourth dimension. Of course, Einstien said the 4th dimension was time. I interviewed a blind person about the 4th dimension and they live in such a different world, but that dosen't change time as the 4th dimension. Blind people get physical therapy and mobility training that I think would benefit anyone intested in the body systems, especially nurology.

Sincerely,
Center

[bo198214]

There is no "the" 4th dimension.
4th dimension is a term used on this forum mostly to refer to a 4th spatial dimension,
i.e. an imaginary additional dimension to our perceived 3 spatial dimensions that behaved in the same way as the first 3 dimensions.

[Nick]

I interviewed a blind person about the 4th dimension and they live in such a different world, but that dosen't change time as the 4th dimension.

Time isn't the 4th dimension. Einstein called it that, but that's not what he meant. Time is a dimension, though.

Blind people get physical therapy and mobility training that I think would benefit anyone intested in the body systems, especially nurology.

What does that have to do with... anything?

[Center]

I thought that the discussion was about crossing body systmes, and I just added how blind people preceive things for learning and discussion.

Sincerely,
Center