Wanna imagine 4D perspective?

[darthbadass]

OK, imagine a cube with images from realmspace inside it. They are not 2D on the sides of the cube, they are like a 3D holoprojection. A 4D being could reach into the cube and pull something into tetraspace, then put it back somewhere else. Thoughts?

[darthbadass]

Ok I actually came up with a better idea (not that I have abandoned the first one, it's useful for visualizing HOW 4D people can manipulate 3D, it just doesn't give you a feeling for 4d): I think they key to the 4th dimension is visualizing a sphere with more than 360 degrees on the equator or any arbitrary circumference. Then if you place a coordinate system xyzw inside the sphere you have all four axes ar perpendicular to eachother. If you placed a 3D thing inside it you could see a hollow place where a 4D person could reach inside it (like the example with Emily and the safe.) In fact, since 4D ground battles are like 3D space battles, then 4D space battles would have more than 360 3D degrees where you could rotate your starfighter. Applying this concept we can program a 4D space battle in a game. (ie if you are facing an enemy capital ship and you rotate your fighter 360 three dimensional degrees you would not be facing the ship but rotate it 360 more degrees and there it is) It's like when particles have a spin of 1/2.

[pat]

I don't follow how this would work at all.

Consider knocking it down a dimension. Consider a circular disc with more than 360-degrees. Now, put a coordinate system xyz inside the disc. You have all three axes are perpendicular. ???

[darthbadass]

Yeah... I don't get it either... just a theory.

[moonlord]

If you have more than 360 degrees around a point, then right angles will also have more than 90 degrees.

[DenijsD]

A 4D being could reach into the cube and pull something into tetraspace

Probably not, when you just think it over, we, 3d beings have no proof of the existance of a 2d universe, nor can we reach into it and pull something out. Similarly it's unlikely that 4d being can pull something out of our dimension, because if they could the would have done so. They can't probably even see it!?

[darthbadass]

A 4D being could reach into the cube and pull something into tetraspace

Probably not, when you just think it over, we, 3d beings have no proof of the existance of a 2d universe, nor can we reach into it and pull something out. Similarly it's unlikely that 4d being can pull something out of our dimension, because if they could the would have done so. They can't probably even see it!?

Shadows are 2D, but projected on 3D objects.

[DenijsD]

Shadows are 2D, but projected on 3D objects.

Are they really? A shadow is a reflection of light. Does that mean, that if a reflection is 2d that light itself is 2d as well? Light comes in waves doesn't it, of different temperatures. I must admit that I am not up to speed with all that.

Besides, we can't grab our shadows, so the 4d being would maybe be able to see 3d beings but might not be able to grab us.

[Keiji]

Are they really? A shadow is a reflection of light.

No, it is when light is blocked by an object, causing the surrounding areas to appear brighter than the shadow area.

Light comes in waves doesn't it, of different temperatures. I must admit that I am not up to speed with all that.

It comes in different wavelengths (therefore different colors); it's part of the electromagnetic spectrum.

Besides, we can't grab our shadows, so the 4d being would maybe be able to see 3d beings but might not be able to grab us.

No, you've got that the wrong way round. We could see a 4D being's shadow, but wouldn't be able to grab them.

[DenijsD]

No, you've got that the wrong way round. We could see a 4D being's shadow, but wouldn't be able to grab them.

It's different still. A 4d being would see his shadow in 3d and he couldn't grab it (the shadow) and could he therefore grab no 3d object at all? We (3d's) haven't reported/noticed ever seeing a shadow of a 4d object. A shadow is still a reflection of light, albeit less bright than the surrounding area's and not directly from the source. Our shadow is reflected on 3d surfaces. A 4d objects shadow will, assumingly, be projected upon 4d objects as it is projected in 4 dimensions as well.

Does light (the electromagnatic spectrum) have volume? It travels in the 3d universe, but in a straight line (if its not bended (is that spelled correctly??? I am dutch you see :-))) How many dimensions has it?

[Keiji]

A 4d being would see his shadow in 3d and he couldn't grab it (the shadow) and could he therefore grab no 3d object at all?

A shadow is not an object, it is just a lack of light. A 4D being could easily grab a 3D object.

A shadow is still a reflection of light

No it isn't! Okay so you're Dutch, maybe you don't know what "reflection" means. Reflection is when light bounces off of an object. Shadows are caused when an object blocks the light - this has nothing to do with reflection.

Does light (the electromagnatic spectrum) have volume? It travels in the 3d universe, but in a straight line (if its not bended (is that spelled correctly??? I am dutch you see :-))) How many dimensions has it?

I don't exactly know what you meant here, but light has no mass. An electromagnetic wave is made up of two parts, which are at right-angles to another. Therefore light is 3D. Even in 4D, light would remain a 3D thing.

And it's "bent", not "bended".

[DenijsD]

If no light reflects from a certain area, it would be pitch black.
There might be less light reflecting in shadowy area's, but still it reflects. A lot of light is blocked by the object in front. That was sort of my point here. A shadow is exactly the same as the surrounding area's of reflection, it's just less and not directly from the source, but it is still reflecting light (3d as you stated out), therefore a shadow is not 2d.

I think this just swept the theory off the table, didn't it.

[Nick]

That is how it is. If an object is completely opaque, then its shadow will be pitch black. But the fact is, (almost) nothing is completely opaque. Shine a flashlight under your hand, and you will see what I mean.

[pat]

That is how it is. If an object is completely opaque, then its shadow will be pitch black.

That's how it is, in a vacuum, if the objects upon which the shadow is cast (or the objects casting the shadows) do not scatter the light they reflect, and we ignore the diffraction [edit: was "refraction"] that occurs at the edges of things.

Photons bounce really well, but most surfaces (and gases and other transmitting media) bounce them at more than just the reflection angle.

[moonlord]

Light also diffracts.

[pat]

Oops... yes... I meant "diffraction" at the edges, not "refraction".