The Danger Fred Could Pose to Bob, and Bob to Emily

[Jay]

I'm talking about the danger of sharpness. Say Fred wants to meet Bob, so Bob pulls him out and puts him upright on the table. Assume there's no air current or anything to knock Fred over. Bob goes over to shake Fred's hands, which slice right through Bob's!

Fred has no width, so his hands have no width. The slightest amount of pressure that Fred put on Bob is magnified indefinitely by the infinitely small width. Thus, contact with Bob would pierce Bob's skin.

The same would hold true for Bob trying to shake hands with Emily.

Hey, I'm a planespace citizen now!!! Yay!!!

[sup2069]

The same would hold true for Bob trying to shake hands with Emily.

I guess you could be right about that. Since we 0" W angle dimension, I guess we would endanger emily if we shook hands.

[Keiji]

i have a completely different opinion - since fred has zero thickness, he would go straight between the gaps in the atoms... and if he happened to touch an atom, he would simply go straight through it without hurting it at all.

[Jay]

I think your correct about passing right through. If my limited knowledge of molecular physics is correct, the subatomic gaps between Bob's atoms should be large and numerous enough for fred to walk right through Bob. However, I don't see why he would go through an atom though, which is a singular point particle.

[alkaline]

actually, atoms are composed of protons, neutrons, and electrons, and there is a lot of empty "space" between those particles. Protons and Neutrons in turn are composed of quarks, but i'm not sure of the space there is between quarks.

[Jay]

So I guess it is even more possible for Fred to pass right through Bob. Unless, the EM forces between them kept this from happening, in which case we would go back to my original hypothesis: Fred would cut through Bob.

[Keiji]

No trionian force can be exactly parallel to a given plane. Therefore such forces would have no effect on Fred.

[alkaline]

Maybe the bionian forces would be completely unaffected by trionian forces; maybe their EM-force doesn't even interact with our EM-force, and so on. Maybe their forces would pass straight through our matter without interacting with it. Maybe the two dimensions would be completely transparent to each other, and they could exist in the same space without even knowing it.

[Keiji]

Bionian forces can have action on trionian+ objects, but not vice versa.

[RQ]

What would happen if Fred shook hands with Emily?

If Fred were infinitely smaller than Bob, and Bob is infinitely smaller than Emily, then Fred would be infinitely smaller than Emily. How would that make Emily any more of a dimensional being than Fred? :?

[Jay]

Fred is not infinitely smaller than Bob, he's infinitely thinner in the z-directon. And Bob is not infinitely smaller than Emily, he's infinitely thinner in the w-direction.

This means that Fred isn't infinitely smaller that Emily, but infinitely thinner in the z-direction AND w-direction. That's the difference between the Bob-Emily relationship and Fred-Emily relationship.

It would be interesting to see what would happen if Fred and Emily tried to shake hands. He would pass right through her more easily than Bob would, without causing her any sort of harm. It would be the same as a 1d line passing straight through Bob's hand.

Hey! Maybe it would be harder for Emily to even see Fred. She's used to seeing realms, and he's only a plane. If he turned to face her while shaking hands, and became a line, it would be damn near impossible for her to see him.

[sup2069]

Fred is not infinitely smaller than Bob, he's infinitely thinner in the z-directon. And Bob is not infinitely smaller than Emily, he's infinitely thinner in the w-direction.

This means that Fred isn't infinitely smaller that Emily, but infinitely thinner in the z-direction AND w-direction. That's the difference between the Bob-Emily relationship and Fred-Emily relationship.

It would be interesting to see what would happen if Fred and Emily tried to shake hands. He would pass right through her more easily than Bob would, without causing her any sort of harm. It would be the same as a 1d line passing straight through Bob's hand.

Hey! Maybe it would be harder for Emily to even see Fred. She's used to seeing realms, and he's only a plane. If he turned to face her while shaking hands, and became a line, it would be damn near impossible for her to see him.

It would be impossible. A infinitly thin line would be a line that is so thin, its smaller than any human measure and smaller than that and keeps going and going. Smaller than atoms, smaller than strings ( string theory yada yada yada )

Infact if fred turned, he would disappear to us

[RQ]

Not only would Fred disappear to us, but he would never have been anywhere.. But let's say that Fred did try to shake hands with Bob. Now since he has no z dimension, he couldn't pose a problem for Bob if they were to shake hands together face to face, since it would be like trying to shake hands with nothing. Now if Bob were to try and poke Fred on the arm then maybe some kind of contact can be established. Or maybe his finger will just go through.

[Jay]

I think Fred might seem to disappear to us, but that doesn't mean he would disappear from existence or that he never existed at all. It's just we're not used to looking at singular lines. It would be the same as trying to notice a singular atom. It's in your vision, but you can't really "see" it, can you?

[alkaline]

We could see a line just fine, as long as it is bright enough. We would just need enough photons to reach our retina so that it would register. Our eyes are actually very sensitive to small amounts of light when we are in the dark.

[Geosphere]

Shadows are 2d. I have never been cut by one, nor had one pass through me.

The n+- dimensions will not/can not interact.

[alkaline]

a shadow is a partial blockage of light - what does that have to do with them cutting through things or passing through things? and what does that have to do with n+- dimensions interacting?

[Geosphere]

A shadow is a representation of an object into a lower plane. It cannot be interacted with without interacting with the casting object - not possible from the projected plane.

The planes interact theoretically and in projections only.

[alkaline]

oh, you're talking about projections. I believe we were talking about intersections, where the higher dimensional being actually puts himself into the space of the lower dimension, so it crosses through him.

[Geosphere]

I have to stick with that never being possible, due to all of the other bio/physio things popping up in the other threads.

[alkaline]

well, not possible from the practical stance, but it still possible in the hypothetical sense, in a simplified universe.

[Geosphere]

Even in that simplified universe, they cant interact. Are we assuming 1 2d universe, or an infinite sum? If 1, then it exists somewhere, and its disruption of our space would be apparent. If more, than we would be constantly passing through them and we are still not sliced.

[alkaline]

We are assuming a finite number of 2d universes within realmspace. The 2d universe could be a giant sphere (to the inhabitants, it would merely be an infinite but closed universe), and this sphere could be sitting out there as a galaxy of its own, but imperceptible by us because it doesn't emit light into realmspace. We could only reach it by travelling who knows how many light years out into empty space.

[Geosphere]

Why finite?

Why spherical?

Why far?

[alkaline]

to make it explainable why we haven't seen such a thing yet. I say finite because if it was infinite, it would possibly intercept light from far away universes and we would perceive it. I say spherical, in order to make it finite. I say far, to explain why we haven't come across it.

It would make an interesting story for the 2d universe and our galaxy to "collide"/intersect, giving us access to universe in order to study it.

[Geosphere]

OK. If it were an infinite plane passing through your desk - would you know it? Is it perceived here at all? Being of no thickness, it exhibits no mass. Light and gravity affect it quite differently than we are used to. How do you know we haven't encountered it? Maybe were not looking for the right thing.

It is also possible it is a single infinite plane that simply hasn't been found yet.

There are many possible reasons we havent seen such a thin, including, of course, the thought that it does not exist.

[Jay]

Do we really have to make the 2d world a sphere to make it finite? Why not a simple circle? However, the 2d telescopes and such can't see beyond the boundaries because outside of them, space become subject to 3d physics. Light can't reach thier 2d eyes from the 3d space.

Maybe that is why we can't see beying the boundaries of our own universe. Because outside of it is a larger 4d one.

[Geosphere]

Why does finite mean smaller? What if its a circle far larger than our universe?

[Jay]

I wasn't trying to say that finite meant smaller. I was just trying to say that it their was a finite 2d realm in our universe, it wouldn't have to be spherical to be finite and still exist.

On your second note. What if the 2d circle was larger than our universe? In that case, maybe our universe is rotating through it constantly, and it would seem that the 2d realm was sweeping through ours!

Or, what if the 2d universe WAS a sphere, but a giant sphere? A giant hollow sphere that served as an encapsulating membrane for our 3d realm? woooo :twisted:

[alkaline]

Do we really have to make the 2d world a sphere to make it finite? Why not a simple circle? However, the 2d telescopes and such can't see beyond the boundaries because outside of them, space become subject to 3d physics. Light can't reach thier 2d eyes from the 3d space.

Maybe that is why we can't see beying the boundaries of our own universe. Because outside of it is a larger 4d one.

A circle is a line, thus it would be a lineworld. Maybe you are thinking of a cylinder? A cylinder-shaped planeworld would need to extend infinitely though. You need a sphere to make a finite planespace. If you had finite cylinder, planar objects would leak out of it into realmspace. I don't think that would make a very consistent universe. Although it makes an interesting science-fiction-like universe.