Dreaming= 4d?

Discussions about the possibility of consciousness, free will, spirits, deities, religions and so on, and how these might interact with time travel, the Big Bang, many worlds and so on.

Dreaming= 4d?

Postby arcaneidea » Thu Nov 30, 2006 1:24 pm

Assuming that we "evolve" into other dimensions, we came from the second dimension. If dimensions overlap each other in subsequent realities, than the earth, or the universe for that matter, does exist on the second dimension, just much different than we might imagine. Assuming the big bang was the beginning of all dimensions, we are constantly evolving to be able to cope first with the present dimension then the coming dimension. If our brain evolved to construct a 3d image in our head from 2d information collected by the retina, what evolution puts us into the fourth dimension? I would say dreaming does as it seems we enter a world where time is not present and the natural laws we obey here do not apply there. Anyone want to elaborate?
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Re: Dreaming= 4d?

Postby bo198214 » Thu Nov 30, 2006 3:59 pm

I would say dreaming does as it seems we enter a world where time is not present and the natural laws we obey here do not apply there.


I dont know your dreams, but my dreams are 3-dimensional and with time. The difference to the real world is that it is more volatile.
I.e. something that was just there can be completely changed or absent in the next moment.
And physical laws apply only very roughly, I mean we can not even undertake repeatable experiments because in the next moment the gadgets are already completely changed, or we forgot that we just wanted to make an experiment *lol*.

And I can not see any connection with the 4th dimension.
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Postby PWrong » Thu Nov 30, 2006 5:19 pm

Assuming that we "evolve" into other dimensions, we came from the second dimension.

Why would you assume that?

I would say dreaming does as it seems we enter a world where time is not present and the natural laws we obey here do not apply there.

That alone is enough to tell you that it isn't the fourth dimension. A 4D universe does have time, and it obeys natural laws.
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Postby arcaneidea » Thu Nov 30, 2006 10:49 pm

Why would you assume that?


I was assuming that based on the principle that everything came from a single point (Big Bang Theory), so unless it can be argued that we skipped two dimensions to our present day reality then I guess my evolving theory would be falsified. Also, this is based off the principle that the fourth dimension is actually time.
A 4D universe does have time, and it obeys natural laws.

I am making a direct comparison to our perception of time and the laws we obey in the third dimension, not assuming that their are no laws or time in the fourth dimension, just saying they would be vastly different than our own.
dont know your dreams, but my dreams are 3-dimensional and with time.

Also, it is my belief that we have a completly different perception of time while in dreams. A single moment in a dream can be an eternity of waking life (great movie). As for dreaming in 3d, you make a good point that I overlooked. My focus was more on the time aspect of it. Also I would add that my idea of the fourth dimension is it is where our perception of time comes from. If there are three spatial dimensions and a fourh that is temporal then it would obviously be quite different than the matter filled dimension we are used too. Anyways this was more of a fun theory than anything and I just wanted to see how people would respond. Thanks for reading!
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Postby PWrong » Fri Dec 01, 2006 6:53 am

I was assuming that based on the principle that everything came from a single point (Big Bang Theory)

Ah, I see. It's actually more likely that spacetime expanded in all directions at once. Otherwise it might violate the cosmological principle (which states that no direction is different to any other).

If there are three spatial dimensions and a fourh that is temporal
:\ There are, lol. It's not a euclidean dimension though, so it doesn't really count.
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Postby jinydu » Thu Dec 14, 2006 9:57 pm

You are trying to draw an analogy between a scientifically verifiable event, the Big Bang, with the subjective experience of dreams. I don't think that is a good idea.

Now I've got to get back to writing essays. :(
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Postby Keiji » Thu Dec 14, 2006 10:52 pm

arcaneidea wrote:
Why would you assume that?


I was assuming that based on the principle that everything came from a single point (Big Bang Theory), so unless it can be argued that we skipped two dimensions to our present day reality then I guess my evolving theory would be falsified. Also, this is based off the principle that the fourth dimension is actually time.


In that case it would belong in R&TT, but I'll leave it here for the time being...
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Postby TimeStopper » Wed Nov 14, 2007 9:14 pm

Perhaps you could try to get a lucid dream and create another dimension.
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Postby headcircus » Wed Nov 14, 2007 10:48 pm

TimeStopper wrote:Perhaps you could try to get a lucid dream and create another dimension.


That is more realisitic that might first be suspected. You have incredible power in your dreams. If you can take any amount of conscious control of them (which we know is possible and proven) then its pretty much "anything goes".

The question is: will your interpretation of another dimension be simply a product of your creativity? Or could you actually tap into another dimension assuming it was a real concept. I think it might be more of the former, however, most people think what we hold true in our heads is what we consider to be real. In that case your imaginary dimension is as real as real can be, for as long as you are dreaming.
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Postby 3dftw » Sat Nov 17, 2007 9:58 am

First of all, arcaneidea, didn't you say you had an experience with a higher intelligence...after taking shrooms? And secondly who said that the Big Bang is a
scientifically verifiable event
?
It's a theory, nothing more.
By the way, I thought that it was a well known fact that dreams are just visions of things we've done in a past life, or prophetic visions about things we are to do in future lives. ;)
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Postby 4 degrees oiT » Sat Nov 17, 2007 11:08 am

I thought that dreams were related to something you were thinking about before you fell asleep.

You might think "But I wasn't thinking about frisbee hippos chasing me," but your subconscious mind deeply affects your dreams too, so it could be about what your subconscious mind is thinking about.
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Postby zero » Tue Nov 20, 2007 3:54 am

4 degrees oiT wrote:I thought that dreams were related to something you were thinking about before you fell asleep.

Curious. I dreamt that thoughts were related to something you were dreaming about before you fell awake!

Which side of the mirror is this, anyway?
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Postby Keiji » Tue Nov 20, 2007 11:26 am

I heard that dreams are just your hopes and fears...
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Postby wendy » Wed Nov 21, 2007 8:13 am

Dreams are in various ways, a kind of replay of segments in the mind. That is, one might dream of hippos flying, because this is the composition of the segments [hippo] + [flying].

The variations must already exist in the mind: that is, the mind will not create while dreaming, something you could not envisage without dreaming. But the show is not a process of the concious mind, (which is an observer), but the unconcious (which does the filing etc).

Left to its devices, it should put on a show for the concious to watch. It will try out things that are in the 'outer circle' (that is, those combinations that are allowable, but usually rejected).

Matters of the day of course are on hand too. If one is seeing images of this repeated during the day, (eg a repetitive task), then it will be in the night too.

Sometimes, it will pass on information about the body. Various images that appear in the night, or various combinations (like floods of forms), might indicate a need to attend some bodlily function.

Sometimes, one listens to the dreams to see if life is on track or not. Various images may indicate that you are not on your right track, so to speak.

Are dreams four dimensional?

It is pretty clear. I mean, you can count the number of dimensions. Most of mine are three dimensional, but occasionally, there is four or five or six. It's not hard to count the number of perpendiculars, is it?

And if you can't count the extra dimensions, don't pretend they're there.
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Postby papernuke » Fri Nov 23, 2007 4:42 am

it actually might be possible that your dreams are four dimensional. for example, you're having a 3D dream, but cant your mental state jump to the fourth or fifth dimension? but then, i dont think dreaming is fourth dimensional. the fourth dimension is a completely different universe. with an extra (perpendicular to all of ours) dimension (direction). how can becoming unconcious (falling asleep) bring you into another physical enviornment if your mind is drifting around, not your body?
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Fourth Dimension is closer than we think.

Postby harveybacon » Tue Jan 08, 2008 8:27 pm

I have also recently thought of this as a way to at least express what the 4th dim. might be like, but not it in reality. Which brings me to another point- Reality does not exist in dreams, therefore it is not really happening. Yet, in the 4th dimension, I think that we will evolve into it, but it will be more of a euphoric "Heaven" that we are all one consciousness with our individuality still in tact. We will not have physical things to distract us from each other and the rest of the Universe.
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Postby TimeStopper » Wed Jan 09, 2008 11:06 pm

How does a dimension give you that?

I say you can dream 4 spatial dimensions if you really try. People have claimed to have extra dimensions in dreams. And for that lucid dreaming is the way to go.
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Postby harveybacon » Thu Jan 10, 2008 4:32 am

TimeStopper wrote:How does a dimension give you that?

I say you can dream 4 spatial dimensions if you really try. People have claimed to have extra dimensions in dreams. And for that lucid dreaming is the way to go.


That is what I think of as Astral Projecting. My wife has done that while sleeping.
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Postby wendy » Thu Jan 10, 2008 10:18 am

It is not pretty hard to recognise the geometry of the dream. You simply count the numbers of perpendiculars.

It is quite possible to have dreams etc in four dimensions, but it does not happen by itself. Dreams, for the most part, are assemblies of ideas that are already "rubbed in" to the subconcious, rather like a word play. If you don't know the words, they won't occur in dreams.

So it is quite possible to have hyperbolic geometry in dreams, or some of the escherine things, or even four dimensions, but these must also exist in concious thought.

So if you haven't grasped concious 4d or 5d or hyperbolic visualisations, then they're not going to occur in your dreams.

Astral Travel

The theory here is that the soul can leave the body in charge of the spirit (the subconcious), and wander off like a driver can wander away from a car. Needless to say, the body is not reacting to its environment actively, such as in sleep.

The soul can then "fly around" the world, looking at things visiting locations etc. Normally, this happens to most of us most nights, but the process of re-entering the body (we are always connected to it), causes this memory to be cleared.

The trick to astral travel, then is to reenter the body without this memory being cleared (which might be an exit-thing). When this happens, we recall what happened during the night, and note it as 'astral travel'.
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Re: Fourth Dimension is closer than we think.

Postby malkuth » Tue Feb 12, 2008 10:41 pm

harveybacon wrote:I have also recently thought of this as a way to at least express what the 4th dim. might be like, but not it in reality. Which brings me to another point- Reality does not exist in dreams, therefore it is not really happening. Yet, in the 4th dimension, I think that we will evolve into it, but it will be more of a euphoric "Heaven" that we are all one consciousness with our individuality still in tact. We will not have physical things to distract us from each other and the rest of the Universe.


The quantum theory states that things exist because we percept them, and not the other way round. Therefore, lucid dreams can be even more real than reality. If we dream a 4th dimension our mind might really be entering an extra dimension to which we, for some reason, can't get to in an awake state of mind. It is a common opinion that during sleep the mind is more submittable to various influences. Why not an extra 4th dimension?
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But would you recognize this?

Postby zero » Wed Feb 13, 2008 4:22 am

wendy wrote:It is not pretty hard to recognise the geometry of the dream. You simply count the numbers of perpendiculars.

We know that there are elliptic geometries with no parallel lines. What if your dream included spatial extension along with the impossibility of there being any perpendicular lines?
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Re: Dreaming= 4d?

Postby papernuke » Sun Feb 17, 2008 8:55 pm

We know that there are elliptic geometries with no parallel lines. What if your dream included spatial extension along with the impossibility of there being any perpendicular lines?

What do you mean by any perpendicular lines?
Do you mean "no" perpendicular lines, or infenitely many?
or do you mean the extention into higher dimensions without any perpendicular lines?
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Re: Dreaming= 4d?

Postby zero » Mon Feb 18, 2008 12:21 am

"Impossibility of there being any" = "none possible."

The idea makes sense when applied to parallel lines, as we can create geometric models where none are possible, this doesn't appear to be so readily done when we consider perpendicular (rather than parallel) lines. As implied by Wendy, the very notion of dimension is bound to the concept of orthogonality. There are no perpendicular lines in a 1-dimensional manifold, but the whole idea of generating higher dimensions involves orthogonal extensions (and thus perpendicular lines).

The noneuclidean geometries we know of today depend on variations of Euclid's fifth postulate. To eliminate perpendiculars would involve a much more challenging variation of his fourth postulate. Easy enough to say, but not so easy to contemplate.

Still, can we dream of it even before quite understanding how to express it? That's the central aspect of my question.
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Re: Dreaming= 4d?

Postby Alex S » Fri Aug 01, 2008 3:55 am

I have had 4-Dimensional dreams before, if time is considered a 4th dimension. I have had dreams where I perceive myself doing something, then months later, I'm doing something and I feel that I've been there before. I theorize that my mind, in addition to traveling through space (3 dimensions), was traveling through time (4 dimensions), to something possibly significant to my life, or something totally insignificant.
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Re: Dreaming= 4d?

Postby Teri7 » Mon Dec 08, 2008 4:56 am

Yes I agree that dreaming is part of the 4th dimension. Especially when you lucid dream. The Aboriginal people believe that the dream life is MORE REAL than this waking life.
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Re: Dreaming= 4d?

Postby caperpaul » Sun Dec 28, 2008 10:12 pm

how do then we explain interreacting,withpeople from the past and with god his son and angels?,as well being in the past as well the futur,knowing these things and watching the dreams unfold in our present?
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Re: Dreaming= 4d?

Postby harveybacon » Mon Dec 29, 2008 1:06 am

That would be 4th or 5th d. I believe God to be all of them, and we can pass through the 4th. The spirit world is probably in the 5th, so we must be able to dream in the 4th. My wife has dreams of things that well possibly could have happened, or do in very close ways. The one that bothers us now is the one about TALL towers, like cell towers. Look up GWEN towers, and see why it might bother us...

So I do agree that we can dream in the 4th, and we could have someone from the 5th contact us or so...
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Re: Dreaming= 4d?

Postby Max88831 » Sun Jan 04, 2009 6:47 pm

If our brain evolved to construct a 3d image in our head from 2d information collected by the retina, what evolution puts us into the fourth dimension?

At the present moment I believe that higher dimensional objects or organisms are invisible. Although we can look at lower dimensional objects and know if they are alive (say if i drew a stick man and it came alive). Just like us higher dimensional organisms can look at us and say that we look much more simpler (just what we would say if we saw a 1D or 2D object/ organism, see where im going with this). Now dreaming is very interesting because dreams are not real and are only electrical pulses in our heads that trigger images during sleep. Of course a 4D "person" will definately have larger brain capacity that people in the 3D world so this could make them have dreams and mental images of 4D all the way down to 1D dreams.
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Re: Dreaming= 4d?

Postby Meloxicam » Mon Oct 25, 2010 1:22 pm

harveybacon wrote:That would be 4th or 5th d. I believe God to be all of them, and we can pass through the 4th. The spirit world is probably in the 5th, so we must be able to dream in the 4th. My wife has dreams of things that well possibly could have happened, or do in very close ways. The one that bothers us now is the one about TALL towers, like cell towers. Look up GWEN towers, and see why it might bother us...

So I do agree that we can dream in the 4th, and we could have someone from the 5th contact us or so...


We only perceive 3 dimensions,cause that's our limit.The word itself dimension is "A dimension is a spatial characteristic of an object; that is, length, width, or height."
Now black holes for example cannot be measured with that principle,therefore it is some other kind of dimension.We can't even perceive the whole concept of an object,from the smallest particle to the one we see.We only measure the spatial characteristics that appear to us as real.
But about those Gwen towers,you shouldn't worry.Cause if 2012 is their big plan,it will be a lot worse than mind control.I suggest you google "ring of power" , a 5 hour movie about the "great evil" that is trying to control the world.After seeing it,the evil doesn't seem to be nothing more than de-evolution,scientifically explainable actually.
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Re: Dreaming= 4d?

Postby doofos » Wed Jul 20, 2011 10:43 pm

In the new testament, Jesus casts out many demons. When i was young, i used to see nightmares, bad dreams. Maybe those dreams were not random, but i was seeing evil spirits. The possession took place at those times in the night, which some i clearly remember being then 2 years old. Those spirits make me the person i am with my good and bad personality. But a newborn is pure soul. And a dream i agree with you, can be like higher dimensional hologram where is possible to see your all life at instant like life flashing in front of eyes. In present 3d world, it is only a linear timeline, that needs browsing through one frame at a time.
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