Is god in 4D?

Discussions about the possibility of consciousness, free will, spirits, deities, religions and so on, and how these might interact with time travel, the Big Bang, many worlds and so on.

Is there a god? is he 4D?

No, there is no god
13
38%
Yes, there is a god, but he is 3D
1
3%
Yes there is a god, and he is 4D
7
21%
Maybe
13
38%
 
Total votes : 34

Is god in 4D?

Postby 4D guy » Tue Apr 18, 2006 12:36 pm

I had this thought that god (if he exist) could be a 4D being. i've written this before in an other topic, so maybe it sounds familiar. iv'e made a pol to see how many agree with my theory, i have voted too.
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Postby thigle » Tue Apr 18, 2006 3:44 pm

there are many ("the God" (whichever you have) included) and 4dimensions are not enough for them to fit in. this is not my theory nor opinion.

this choice (many "gods/godesses & >4D") is not in the pool options.
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Postby darthbadass » Thu Apr 20, 2006 7:16 pm

God has infinite dimensions, but I selected the closest one, 4D.
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Postby houserichichi » Thu Apr 20, 2006 10:15 pm

Two us meek little 3-dimensioners, the omnipresent, omnipotent god would be anything in the right place within four-space since nothing in 3D can be everywhere (in 3D) at the same time. Now, whether or not he can part seas or set bushes on fire to talk through them, well, that's something I'll let the rest of your argue about. However, were there a being that was omnipresent in the fourth dimension (he could see all of our god's movements) he would have to be five dimensional. We'd say he's god's god.. Argument goes ad infinitum...

So which one of those gods is our god? Well since there's no such thing as the infinitieth god we'd have to make one of five choices...

1. Our god is the one in the fourth dimension and we suck it up that our god isn't the greatest one.

2. Our god is the one in the fourth dimension but there are no higher dimensions than that so ours is the one in 4D and is the greatest.

3. My argument that the chain goes "ad infinitum" is flawed and somewhere up there it ends at the nth-dimension. That one's our god and all the ones before him suck.

4. All of the gods in the infinite chain are our god and so we don't have just one.

5. There is no being in the fourth (or higher) dimension that can see us all the time so we don't have a god.

Make your pick!!!
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Postby Hugh » Thu Apr 20, 2006 10:32 pm

Another possibility exists, that God is beyond any dimensional measurement as we understand it, and existing beyond our measurement of time, and has always existed, and always will.
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Postby Nick » Thu Apr 20, 2006 11:01 pm

You forgot to mention the possibility of there not being a god.
Please be politically correct for us athiests :D

Oh, and btw, I voted for maybe. Gotta keep my mind open!
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Postby Hugh » Fri Apr 21, 2006 12:21 am

You forgot to mention the possibility of there not being a god.
Please be politically correct for us athiests

The original poll has a no god option - #1. House has a no god option too, #5.
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Postby Nick » Fri Apr 21, 2006 12:57 am

woops...I didn't see that :oops: .
I'm feeling silly right about now.
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Postby houserichichi » Fri Apr 21, 2006 2:02 pm

You'd think that true scientists would keep their options open and remain agnostic. I don't know who voted for what (I have yet to vote, myself), but I'm surprised by more atheistic votes than agnostic. Sure, there a bunch of philosophies that discourage the need or use of a god in our way of thought but true science can never rule an argument out unless there is theoretical or experimental proof against. As there is neither (there is philosophical in the form of Occam's razor, for one, but that's not science) you'd think that the scienceheads would be forced agnostic (choice: Maybe). Maybe there is a god. Maybe he's in 4d. There's no proof of either. There's no disproof of either. Maybe maybe maybe?
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Postby DenijsD » Fri Apr 21, 2006 2:16 pm

God does not exist, religion does, and it is a product of rotten human minds from the past.
Now that we are all bright enough to read an write, we don't need religion to educate people anymore.
It has nothing to do with dimensions if you ask me. (unless Gutto's dreamspace can be proved! :-))
There isn't a 4th dimension? I think, do you?
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Postby Nick » Fri Apr 21, 2006 9:55 pm

houserichichi wrote:You'd think that true scientists would keep their options open and remain agnostic. I don't know who voted for what (I have yet to vote, myself), but I'm surprised by more atheistic votes than agnostic. Sure, there a bunch of philosophies that discourage the need or use of a god in our way of thought but true science can never rule an argument out unless there is theoretical or experimental proof against. As there is neither (there is philosophical in the form of Occam's razor, for one, but that's not science) you'd think that the scienceheads would be forced agnostic (choice: Maybe). Maybe there is a god. Maybe he's in 4d. There's no proof of either. There's no disproof of either. Maybe maybe maybe?


You must be agnostic, because that is the agnostic way of thinking.

Athiests do not believe in a god because it is more probable for him not to exist, for a lot of reasons which I am not going to list right now. The main reason is that God is supernatural, which science cannot prove, and since it cannot be proven, it must not be fully accepted.

I switched back to agnostic after finding this website and started learning about higher dimensions, because this opens up a way to prove that there is a god. If god was a 4d being, then he is no longer supernatural, but rather part of the natural world around us.
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Postby moonlord » Sat Apr 22, 2006 10:13 am

I consider God to be the one who takes care for the laws of physics to be valid. Therefore, God is not material, nor related to space or time. It's just the Architect.
"God does not play dice." -- Albert Einstein, early 1900's.
"Not only does God play dice, but... he sometimes throws them where we cannot see them." -- Stephen Hawking, late 1900's.
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Postby Nick » Sat Apr 22, 2006 1:55 pm

moonlord wrote:I consider God to be the one who takes care for the laws of physics to be valid. Therefore, God is not material, nor related to space or time. It's just the Architect.


Are you saying that God is not a being, but rather a universal energy that holds everything together?

That's an interesting thought.
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Postby moonlord » Sat Apr 22, 2006 2:43 pm

In other words, my belief is that God IS the Universe.
"God does not play dice." -- Albert Einstein, early 1900's.
"Not only does God play dice, but... he sometimes throws them where we cannot see them." -- Stephen Hawking, late 1900's.
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Postby Nick » Sat Apr 22, 2006 9:53 pm

moonlord wrote:In other words, my belief is that God IS the Universe.


Since I'm a part of the Universe (and everything else, too), does that make me part of God?

Don't take this the wrong way, I'm not attacking your belief; I'm just curious :) .
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Postby moonlord » Sun Apr 23, 2006 7:08 am

Yes, that makes you part of God. And it doesn't bother me to argue upon any subject.
"God does not play dice." -- Albert Einstein, early 1900's.
"Not only does God play dice, but... he sometimes throws them where we cannot see them." -- Stephen Hawking, late 1900's.
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Postby houserichichi » Sun Apr 23, 2006 3:07 pm

Curiosity forces me to ask: is that belief founded on any logic at all or is it simply faith?
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Postby PWrong » Sun Apr 23, 2006 4:52 pm

In other words, my belief is that God IS the Universe.

Why have two names for the same thing? :?
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Postby moonlord » Mon Apr 24, 2006 8:52 am

Well, to answer two questions in one, it is not faith. It is my way to accept God in our world. A more direct answer would be "There is no God", but I always prefer not to be radical.
"God does not play dice." -- Albert Einstein, early 1900's.
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Postby Nick » Mon Apr 24, 2006 8:18 pm

Saying that "not believing in a God is radical" is insulting to me; that is what I believe.
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Postby houserichichi » Mon Apr 24, 2006 11:04 pm

"There is definitely not a god" is just as radical as saying "there definitely is a god", no?
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Postby Nick » Mon Apr 24, 2006 11:10 pm

Good point, good point.
However, he did not use the word definitely; he just stated the opinion as it is. By adding "definitely" you make it radical.
I'll admit, however, I got a little sensitive, so don't think too much of it...
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Postby houserichichi » Mon Apr 24, 2006 11:16 pm

I guess either way it depends on your definition of "radical". I'm sure the religious could say that it's radical and full of assumptions to not believe in a god whereas the non-religious could say the opposite.

What's more important in this discussion, at least to me, is if there really is a god and it really is a being in the fourth dimension, why have we seen no direct evidence of it? Surely he's not an invisible being as well!
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Postby moonlord » Tue Apr 25, 2006 7:04 am

As we currently possess no scientific proof as to whether God does or does not exist, I prefer to remain undecided. That's why I choose "the middle way".
"God does not play dice." -- Albert Einstein, early 1900's.
"Not only does God play dice, but... he sometimes throws them where we cannot see them." -- Stephen Hawking, late 1900's.
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Postby PWrong » Tue Apr 25, 2006 4:32 pm

In other words, my belief is that God IS the Universe.

As we currently possess no scientific proof as to whether God does or does not exist, I prefer to remain undecided.

I'm confused :?. If you define God to be the universe, and the universe exists, then God exists by definition.

Incidently, I don't see why a 4D God would be omnipresent in a 3D universe. I can't reach every point in a plane.
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Postby darthbadass » Tue Apr 25, 2006 5:44 pm

What really confuses me is that alot of the scientific minds on this site are athiest. For my part, the more I study science and mathematics, the more I see proof of god in such simple things as the graph of x^2. It could be alot more complicated, but no, our universe, at least macroscopically, behaves in an ordered, structured, predictable manner. Such simplicity I see as proof of intelligent design of the universe. However, when one looks at a biological specimen, that is even more amazing, as when one ponders how electrical implulses influence our muscles to move in such complexities as dancing or fighting, that is wonderous. And that is just the surface of the complexity of our body.

But there is something I agree with the athiests on: religion can be very, very, dangerous. Look at how those damn neo-cons and evangelical fascists are moving to eliminate our rights and freedom of religion. If we are not careful we may have a fascist theological dictatorship on our hands. Crusades, jihads, persecution, torture... religion has caused much suffering. But there are always the good people who realize that most religion is a metaphor, not actual historical events, and keep true morals in mind, not the twisted ones of the religious right. I'm more spiritual than religious, spiritualism is a great alternative to restrictive outdated religious codes that mean nothing.

Really in the end it's up to you: believe in God or don't, it doesn't matter in the end, all that matters is doing the "right" thing as humans have an ingrained sense of morality.
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Postby DenijsD » Wed Apr 26, 2006 7:04 am

Well spoken darthbadass.

God and religion are 2 totally different things.
An external intelligence (Extra Terrestial, Extra Universal or Extra Dimensional) could be considered God. But I'd prefer not to call it that, because that implies that the external intelligence would be part of religion as invented by man kind.

What is interesting though, is how God/Alah/Zeus/whichevergod came alive in the human mind. Is it just the way we try to explain things we don't understand or has external intelligence been in contact with humans and is that where the god story originates.
Funny thing is that it occures in most cultures I think, even those that have only been discovered recently (Aboriginees/Native Americans etc)

What do you think?
There isn't a 4th dimension? I think, do you?
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Postby houserichichi » Wed Apr 26, 2006 2:26 pm

I personally don't see any god in mathematics because it's built up on logic, not some whimsical luck or chance. There are concrete reasons why the graph of x^2 is smooth and orderly and relatively boring to look at and those reasons are all entirely man-made. They depend on a set of rules that a man decided to formulate and, although incomplete for the purposes of "reality", work wonderfully on our every day scales and experiences.

Why simplicity boils down to any sort of higher intelligence stumps me for argument. I'm unable to make a counterpoint because such a statement is faith based and, as such, un-arguable (if such a word exists). Things are predictable (on macroscopic scales) because we have the mathematics to follow it and describe things. Yes, the Earth would still spin around the sun at x-many meters per second, but that's because mankind defined what a meter is, what a second is, and to use base-10 arithmetic to do its calculations. If we, for whatever reason, re-defined the meter or other fundamental constants, or stopped using base-10 and instead came up with some other form of calculation (completely different than anything we've ever come up with) then things may or may not be as clean-cut as they are. It's human logic that defines how we see and communicate things to eachother. Things would still happen in the universe, that much is true, but they may not appear to happen for any particular reason were we not in posession of the necessary tools to describe them.

I'll admit, I'm sometimes amazed by biology too. At times I can't fathom how amazing it is that I was once a set of differentiated cells and formed into a working, functioning human being. It's all logical steps, however - no sneaky god tricks but a reason for everything. Consciousness, I don't know...the girlfriend is a psych major, I might have to ask her to get an explanation...but the fact that we're "alive" in the sense that we breathe, eat, and all those things, that's just basic biology and genetics. It can be explained well enough.

Anyway, no more scraping at the walls...I like debating these kinds of things but those of us on either side of the table have to agree to disagree, I think...but I don't know about you, I just love hearing both sides of the coin, mine and yours.
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Postby moonlord » Wed Apr 26, 2006 5:14 pm

@PWrong: Take casuality the other way. We don't know whether it does or does not exist, and people argue about it with no proof whatsoever. That's why, instead of taking a radical position, I prefer to have "my own God". Therefore I defined it the way I did. In my second post, I was to reffering to God as in the religious way. Hope this cleared up things.
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Postby SilentGod » Sat Apr 29, 2006 3:03 pm

Science doesn't disagree with god in the same way it doesn't disagree with the notion of life on Alpha Centauri A. But that doesn't put the theory that there is one on the same level as the theory that there isn't one.

I'd call myself philosophically agnostic, scientifically atheistic.
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