Discussions about the possibility of consciousness, free will, spirits, deities, religions and so on, and how these might interact with time travel, the Big Bang, many worlds and so on.


Postby phoenix » Sun Mar 04, 2012 11:57 am

Please don't read if you don't like cognitive dissonance.

We're not special. We don't need to exist for 1 + 2 = 3, even if I do need to use language to express the concepts of 1, 2, and 3 - they exist independent of language and thought. So does multiplication, and calculus. Imaginary numbers (see, something made-up already). Infinity, the infinitesimal, the Fourier transform and Riemann-Zeta. Sierpinski's triangle, Mandlebrot sets, and other 3, 4, 6-dimensional fractals, all working together in massive chaotic precision.

If there's a choice in anything, rather, a non-casual way to make a decision, then all such non-casual ways must exist, as they also can be proven as easily as the "chosen" non-casual path, if for nobody else then the being that decided them at the time they were decided. As an example, say we have a world-simulation that we can interrupt the normal course of rules to change something of our own will (as any God/gods would), then we are either inserting the causality that guides our own world (interpersonal dynamics, the weather) into their world, or adding another rule isolated to their own system (meaning using information strictly obtained in the simulated-world). The information to make the decision has to come from somewhere. If it doesn't, it's no less-likely than any other decision.

We really could be anywhere, in terms of the rules that run our universe. We could be sitting atop an intergalactic stock-market of some kind, which incidentally has a prediction close to a 6.28-Dimensional tensor-field, or maybe all that quantum foam is in some being's mattress, and maybe it doesn't even mete out its world in terms of space and time, because the same thing is just going to happen again anyway. We could be simulated now. Only 3-dimensions? That's it? Really? And you didn't think we'd catch on? A 4-dimensional being could probably find some way to produce an infinite 3-dimensional continuum by looping back and forth across a finite 4D-volume of space. Our entire universe could be simulated in the smallest of 4D spaces (or is it 12 now?). I'm sure a being existing in a universe where the number of dimensions is expanding could find a way to eventually simulate any and every-dimensional continuum.

Intelligent beings will exist elsewhere. There are systems on systems on systems. The quantum rules (whatever we eventually determine them to be) yield more local and general rules like chemistry (narrower location of this planet, encompassing more individual units of particles), which in turn yield something more local and general like biology (also more narrowly located in certain climates, with many chemical-compartments), then to psychology which guides the more general decisions of biology, sociology, politics, etc. You can subdivide these individual rules until the lines blur, and they are blurred. Systems with greater and greater intelligence pile on top of eachother. I like to think I'm more sentient than the global traffic network, but some days when I'm 2k in the red I'm not so sure. At least I'm self-aware.

The fact is, our psychological layer of existence has created another idea-generating processing-power-focusing group of entities, so powerful I dare speak. Wills and drives that we give them. These socioforms operate on their own plane of existence, separate from our own, but bound to our rules of psychology as the chemical obeys the quantum. Demons and angels might be real, in terms of how much power collections of ideas can get when they associate with eachother under one belief, and anyone can assist empowering or dispelling these socioforms with their own behaviors. I'm certain this process will eventually evolve more robust socioforms capable of mitigating this environment. I'm sure what's waiting for us in space is like something out of a nature video. "The tiny planet briefly cries out in radio waves, before it is quickly hushed by a small robot strike-force. Of the 10,000 sea turtles on this beach that support life, only three will survive to technological maturity..." There's always a bigger fish, they could just be waiting until we're big enough to eat, unless we're already in its stomach.

But there's always a bigger fish, and no matter what there's always your experience to grapple with. How do you know for certain that you are not being fed a perceptual experience by something else? You are, after all, just information, as is any being that could be simulating you (and they probably know it). All-encompassing everything is the viewpoint of everything. The most well-informed beings will certainly be the most empathic, not only with you, but also with watching rock-formations and maybe even a little nuclear decay. Anything with the mathematical prowess to calculate us should likely have a highly advanced society, each individual with their own wills and drives, and the power to calculate you, at any moment in your life. And they will, and moment-to-moment the decision that exists is whether or not they do something to interrupt that system. Every moment, you, I, and everything else get their information rebuilt into some crazy alternate-reality for who-knows-what, for every single casual decision in this universe (local enough to you), as there are that many versions of ourselves. If you're looking for a soul, the collection of your ideas, reactions and information over a course (or several courses) of time is probably where to find it. As far as what your soul can expect when encountering these alternate worlds, the best place to look is close to yourself, as that's likely going to be the type of ideas the simulator is looking for. If you act evil, you damn your own soul in these alternate-realities, while conversely being good may bring your soul good fortune. Nothing is really a guarantee, everybody just does what they want, but the general laws of attraction remain.

This implies a kind of socioform of every conscious being everywhere, and while also accounting for the demographics of beings simulating others, there may be a great number of philosophical conclusions we can draw from this, and the fate of our souls. Also, as a society becomes more intelligent, it learns to process faster, and therefore the odds that it is simulating any one given reality go up. It is most likely if we are being simulated, that it will be by beings infinitely more intelligent than ourselves (and I do mean infinity), but even our simulator is not God, as there are still beings that are infinitely more intelligent than them. The closest thing to God is probably the overarching beliefs shared by all conscious beings - a trans-reality belief. The real search is trying to find out what that is.

As far as what happens to you personally after you die, I suppose it's no different than flowing from moment to moment now. I'm not entirely sure I'm still the same consciousness I was when I started writing this, and judging by the length, there's probably a great deal of cellular difference too.

Summary: We're all made of math, and behave as if the museum curator is watching you.
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Joined: Fri Jan 13, 2012 3:10 am

Re: 42

Postby SwirlGlome » Sat Aug 04, 2012 12:04 am

I'd like to marry the museum curator.
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Joined: Tue Jul 31, 2012 10:37 pm

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