Perception of time from the Fourth Dimension...

[ryzl]

Have you ever wondered what time would be like in the fourth dimension? Or if you would even experience it at all? Some say that time IS the 4th dimension, but I think it is more of a spacial dimension where a higher spiritual awareness is capable with less physical and spatial restrictions and a greater ability to see all of something. I therefore believe that time would be more like a fifth dimension, or in a different sense, that time is not present (or does not 'rule') in a fifth dimension but can be controlled and manipulated from it. If so, does time exist in the 4thD? And if it does, what speed what it be percieved at? Would things in the human world appear extroardinarily slow, due to a faster speed of frequencies in 4thD existence? Or would they seem overbearingly fast, due to the higher awareness and ability to see more (of time) than we?

[Hugh]

The fourth spatial dimension just has another pependicular spatial axis available than the third spatial dimension. I think that time would be experienced the same in each.

[PWrong]

Have you ever wondered what time would be like in the fourth dimension?

Most likely the same as everywhere else.

Some say that time IS the 4th dimension, but I think it is more of a spacial dimension where a higher spiritual awareness is capable with less physical and spatial restrictions and a greater ability to see all of something.

If you lived in 4 dimensions, you would have a "higher awareness" in a sense, but there would be a lot more things to be aware of.

Would things in the human world appear extroardinarily slow, due to a faster speed of frequencies in 4thD existence?

No, things would probably go at normal speed. Although the speed of time obviously depends on the speed of your clock.

[ryzl]

The fourth spatial dimension just has another pependicular spatial axis available than the third spatial dimension. I think that time would be experienced the same in each.

Yes but is the fourth dimension purely only a spatial dimension? Is it limited to this or is there more supernatural and/or emotional/mental capabilites beyond the realms of physical space, to point where it even perhaps verges on confronting/superseding time?
I dunno its getting a bit over-analyzed perhaps but the possibilites seem endless.

[ryzl]

Would things in the human world appear extroardinarily slow, due to a faster speed of frequencies in 4thD existence?

No, things would probably go at normal speed. Although the speed of time obviously depends on the speed of your clock.[/quote]

Special relativity says that a man travelling at next to light speed experiences time slower than a static man on earth, and the same with thier clocks, an effect known as 'time dilation'. I guess the question then remains, is time dilation experienced between dimensions? Well the answer would be no if the beings on each dimension are moving at a similar speed. But is there some kind of speed discrepancy between dimensions? Does the possibility not exist that a being in the 4thD exists again with say higher frequencies or something similar that allows them to travel effortlessly through physical space at extroardinary speeds, effectively making them experience time at a different rate?

[PWrong]

Yes but is the fourth dimension purely only a spatial dimension?

Yes, otherwise we wouldn't call it the fourth dimension. We would refer to it as "time", or "supernatural capabilities" or something. The very name implies that it's the same as the other three dimensions, except there's one more of them.

Special relativity says that a man travelling at next to light speed experiences time slower than a static man on earth, and the same with thier clocks, an effect known as 'time dilation'.

You're almost right. The man travelling close to light speed doesn't experience anything strange. But you can see his clock ticking slower, and he seems to move slower. But on the other hand, he thinks you're the one moving, except in the opposite direction. He sees your clock ticking slower as well.

Does the possibility not exist that a being in the 4thD exists again with say higher frequencies or something similar that allows them to travel effortlessly through physical space at extroardinary speeds, effectively making them experience time at a different rate?

I don't know what you mean by higher frequencies, but we can already travel through space at extraordinary speeds. Once you're travelling fast, it takes no effort to keep travelling that speed unless there's a force acting on you.

The reason you "experience" time is that you have something like a little clock inside your brain. If you could make that clock tick faster, you would experience time faster. Now, a 4D creature would have a different brain from you, so it would experience time at a different rate. But the same could be said of any being in any dimension.

[Hugh]

Yes but is the fourth dimension purely only a spatial dimension? Is it limited to this or is there more supernatural and/or emotional/mental capabilites beyond the realms of physical space, to point where it even perhaps verges on confronting/superseding time?

Think of the first dimension as being a line, the second as being two perpendicular lines, the third as being three perpendicular lines, and the fourth as being four perpendicular lines. There is just an increase in the amount of perpendicular directions available for movement.

Time is just a measurement of movement along a temporal axis. It should be similar within each dimension.

[moonlord]

Useless to say I agree with what the others have said before me. The question that arises is whether anyone has computed any "Lorentz-equivalent" transformations for 4D...

[ryzl]

The reason you "experience" time is that you have something like a little clock inside your brain. If you could make that clock tick faster, you would experience time faster. Now, a 4D creature would have a different brain from you, so it would experience time at a different rate.

So then back to my original question; if a 4D creature has a different brain from us, what speed would its "clock" most likely tick at and therefore at what rate would they be more likely to "experience" time at compared to us?

[jinydu]

Think of the first dimension as being a line, the second as being two perpendicular lines, the third as being three perpendicular lines, and the fourth as being four perpendicular lines. There is just an increase in the amount of perpendicular directions available for movement.

Technically, the axes (or more precisely, the elements of the basis) do not have to be perpendicular; all that is required is that they be linearly independent (see the FAQ). However, it is often simpler to work with perpendicular axes.

Useless to say I agree with what the others have said before me. The question that arises is whether anyone has computed any "Lorentz-equivalent" transformations for 4D...

Well, a natural Lorentz-invariant would be (ct)^2 - x^2 - y^2 - z^2 - w^2 (where w is the fourth spatial coordinate). And I expect that the basic equations one learns in an introductory special relativity course wouldn't change because they only presume the existence of one spatial dimension and more or less ignore the others.

So then back to my original question; if a 4D creature has a different brain from us, what speed would its "clock" most likely tick at and therefore at what rate would they be more likely to "experience" time at compared to us?

Your question is hopelessly oversimplified. Even species on the same planet (let alone in universes with a different number of spatial dimensions) probably perceive time to "tick" at very different rates. Your question is sort of like asking "What color clothes do people wear in country X?"

[Hugh]

Technically, the axes (or more precisely, the elements of the basis) do not have to be perpendicular; all that is required is that they be linearly independent

Really? I found a few other quotes from you on this forum stating differently.

In the "Time being the Fourth Dimension VS others" thread:

Mathematicians who only study 4D space aren't concerned about what the real world really is. Instead, they write down the postulate "It is possible to draw four mutually perpendicular lines through a point."

In the "4th Dimension... what are you?" thread:

Mathematically, the fourth dimension is formed by 4 mutually perpendicular lines intersecting at a single point.

So are you now saying that the fourth spatial dimension could exist within say for example 3d space, with a fourth dimensional axis just being "linearly independent" from the other 3 axes?

[moonlord]

Hugh, jinydu hasn't contradicted himself. We generally assume they are perpendicular because some properties are more obvious if you look at them. "Linearly independent" forces these four lines to be in 4D. There must be no line that can be embedded in a subspace formed by the others. They wouldn't be independent, then.

Jinydu, I've said something stupid out there. Just realised the Lorentz transformations are independent on the number of dimensions... as long as we have at least a spacial and a temporal ones.

[bo198214]

Technically, the axes (or more precisely, the elements of the basis) do not have to be perpendicular;

If you want to do geometry you need to measure angles and distances, that means you need an inner product.
Every separable inner product space has an orthonormal basis.

Done.

[jinydu]

Really? I found a few other quotes from you on this forum stating differently.

moonlord has already answered your question; but I would also like to add that I did not learn about linear independence until I took my first linear algebra class a few months ago.

[bo198214]

Technically, the axes (or more precisely, the elements of the basis) do not have to be perpendicular; all that is required is that they be linearly independent

Really? I found a few other quotes from you on this forum stating differently.

Dont let you irritate, Hugh. In a geometrical 4d space, i.e. where you can measure angles and distances, there are always 4 perpendicular axes with an equal scale on it. That was my previous post saying in a quite hardcore mathematical way.

[Hugh]

Dont let you irritate, Hugh. In a geometrical 4d space, i.e. where you can measure angles and distances, there are always 4 perpendicular axes with an equal scale on it. That was my previous post saying in a quite hardcore mathematical way.

Well bo, it sounds like you're disagreeing with what jinydu is saying. It doesn't irritate me, but I'd sure like to find out who is right.

[jinydu]

I don't think this is a disagreement, it's just that a certain distinction hasn't been clarified:

A vector space with dimension 4 is a vector space whose bases all contain four elements.

An inner product space with dimension 4 is a special type of vector space (one that is imbued with a function called an inner product) with dimension 4. As bo198214 implied, you can do a lot more with inner product spaces that you can with ordinary vector spaces. For instance, you can define orthogonality and measure distances.

As you can see, in mathematics, there are different types of spaces.