Black Holes and White Holes

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Black Holes and White Holes

Postby bn199 » Thu Apr 27, 2006 1:20 am

Sorry if this is stupid but im not an expert on 4 dimensions. I bet this has already been proved wrong but its worth a try...

Black Holes, they are just a singularity, how is this possible in 3 dimensions?
If there was a White hole in the 4th dimension that intersected the 3rd dimension which has a black hole at that point too, is it possible that both exists and all the matter from the 3rd dimension that is going through the black hole is being expelled to the 4th dimension?
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Postby Nick » Thu Apr 27, 2006 1:34 am

A black hole is an object with an extremely high mass that bends spacetime so much that it pulls everything close to it (even light) into it. Black holes do not suck something up and spit it out somewhere else; that would be a wormhole.

Could you define the white hole though?
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Postby bn199 » Thu Apr 27, 2006 1:45 am

white hole is a postulated celestial body that is the time reversal of a black hole
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Postby Nick » Thu Apr 27, 2006 10:36 am

So... a white hole is an object with so little mass that it repels everything?

Isn't that impossible? It would need negative mass :)
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Postby houserichichi » Thu Apr 27, 2006 11:15 pm

If it had negative mass it would necessarily travel faster than light. Funny things happen when mass gets less and less.
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Postby Nick » Thu Apr 27, 2006 11:24 pm

houserichichich wrote:If it had negative mass it would necessarily travel faster than light. Funny things happen when mass gets less and less.


How is it possible for something to have negative mass? Mass, like size and distance can only be measured in positive numbers. :|
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Postby houserichichi » Thu Apr 27, 2006 11:52 pm

Negative mass is (as far as we know) nothing more than a mathematical curiosity...IF something were to have negative mass it would have to travel at superluminal velocities.
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Postby Keiji » Fri Apr 28, 2006 3:12 am

houserichichi wrote:If it had negative mass it would necessarily travel faster than light. Funny things happen when mass gets less and less.


But if something travels faster than light it will have imaginary mass, not negative mass... :?
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Postby houserichichi » Fri Apr 28, 2006 3:20 am

Sorry, negative mass-squared. Clasically a tachyon had "imaginary mass" but that really makes no logical sense so instead physicists describe (super-)luminal particles by their mass-squared...either it's positive (thus mass is real) or negative (mass is "imaginary").
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Postby bn199 » Fri Apr 28, 2006 4:22 am

well is it possible in 4 dimensions for a 3 dimension object to have negitive mass?

and learn more about white holes from here
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_hole

i dont really get it cuz im in like 8th grade and im not really learning about theories on things that complicated....lol
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Postby jinydu » Sat Apr 29, 2006 8:19 pm

bn199 wrote:i dont really get it cuz im in like 8th grade and im not really learning about theories on things that complicated....lol


Please be patient then; one of the things about physics theories is that they can never really be fully understood until you have seen and grasped the mathematics behind it. Written descriptions using only words don't really do justice to it. Unfortunately, my understanding is that the real story isn't taught until university.
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Postby xhutchinson » Fri Jul 07, 2006 2:32 am

I cannot see as to why something could not have negitive mass, i personally imagine it to be somewhat like a streched rubberband, when it is released it travles at great speeds untill it is restored to its original shape, therefore an object with negitive mass would travel at great speeds until it creates it self (or possibly collects) a mass greater than or equal to 0
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Postby jinydu » Fri Jul 07, 2006 3:01 am

Well XHUTCHINSON, here is one problem: There is currently no observational evidence that objects with negative mass exist. Why should we believe that something physically exists if we have no evidence that it exists?
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Postby xhutchinson » Fri Jul 07, 2006 3:10 am

jinydu wrote:Well XHUTCHINSON, here is one problem: There is currently no observational evidence that objects with negative mass exist. Why should we believe that something physically exists if we have no evidence that it exists?


And the earth is flat to........ i was not suggesting the above is accurate, merely just thinking of a possibility, just an idea of a possiblility i don't expect you to believe anything. :)
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Postby PWrong » Fri Jul 07, 2006 7:13 am

and learn more about white holes from here
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_hole

I think that link answers your question. Wormholes are unstable, and white holes apper to violate the 2nd law of thermodynamics.

Sorry, negative mass-squared. Clasically a tachyon had "imaginary mass" but that really makes no logical sense so instead physicists describe (super-)luminal particles by their mass-squared...either it's positive (thus mass is real) or negative (mass is "imaginary").

If mass was imaginary, either force or acceleration would be imaginary. How does that work?

Unfortunately, my understanding is that the real story isn't taught until university.

I doubt that white holes will be taught to undergraduates anywhere. We'll probably have to wait until after our PhD. Not everyone has the luxury of doing postgraduate physics, that's why they come to forums.
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