supernatural

[robinlee]

Hello,all

Ive never been to a newsgroup site like this before, so excuse my ignorance. I believe there is a very real possiblity that some of the things that mankind has always considered supernatural,or strange, ie. ghosts, miracles,levitation,healings,ufo's etc... Perhaps these are fouth dimensional realities that we dont quite understand yet. Some of the things that Jesus did. It says that after he was ressurected, that he walked through a locked door. and that He could travel from one place to another in an instant. every culture has had a belief in ghosts or spirits. And to many people the world over have claim to have seen "ghosts". I really find it hard to believe that all of these reports were given by superstitous people, or mass hallucinations. The same thing with what we call UFO'S maybe what we are seeing is "something" from a higher dimension, and we have no frame of reference for it. anyway i would enjoy hearing from some like minded people.

[Hugh]

Hi robinlee,

I would agree that there is a logical, scientific explanation for the "supernatural" things that people experience. It's just that we don't have all the science figured out yet.

If the universe has a fourth spatial dimension, then we would have four spatial dimensions as well because we're in it. We just may be limited from seeing all of it at once. If we were actually 4d, but only capable of visualizing 3d of it at any one time, we would still be able to see at least a 3d "slice" of anything else that is 4d around us. We would just have to turn and look at it.

I've always had a fascination for the paranormal, there is so much that we have yet to learn about the universe.

I wonder if someone will win James Randi's One Million Dollar Challenge someday?

[lordofduct]

If the universe has a fourth spatial dimension, then we would have four spatial dimensions as well because we're in it. We just may be limited from seeing all of it at once. If we were actually 4d, but only capable of visualizing 3d of it at any one time, we would still be able to see at least a 3d "slice" of anything else that is 4d around us. We would just have to turn and look at it.

Just because we are in it doesn't mean we'd have to have 4 spacial dimensions as well. Take for instance a 2D realm within our own 3D realm. Like drawings on a wall or other surface. That surface exists in a 3D realm and the drawings on it do aswell but because whatever entity is in that surface may not be able to recognize 3D objects nor are they effected by 3D objects often if not ever at all.

I can't think of any living let alone intelligent 2D entities, but still take Fred are friendly lil' triangle... he could only see left right up and down. Never seeing anything off of the slip of paper he was drawn on... If we we happen to be drawn on the surface of some wall or object that is 4 dimensional we may not ever recognize nor would there be and 4D objects sitting inside our realm... maybe on top of it. You can never know exactly.

Anyways... how would we know if we were looking at a 3D slice of a 4D object anyhow? If by what you state that we all would be 4 dimensional that means our bodies that we see are a 3D slice of our 4dimensional bodies... that would mean that the 3D slice would look like everything around us and would not explain anything about what we were looking at supernatural.


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to approach the first guys topic of supernatural things it could be possible true.

For instance UFOs or Jesus Christ passing through locked doors and moving far distances in a blink of an eye. If a 4th spacial dimension existed you could say that possibly this explains UFOs easily.

It may not be they are 4dimensional... but indeed 3dimensional like us. It's just the problem everyone has with UFOs is that it would take millenias for an intelligent being to make it all the way here as it is believed nothing can go faster then the speed of light. But a 4th dimension would explain them as they could easily pass into the 4th dimension choose a point in our realm and enter back in. (obviousily stated time and time again in this very forum). Same goes for Jesus...


again we may be wrong... shit we only 'assume' that nothing can go faster then light. No one has done it yet, so we are not sure. Though I don't know how an organic creature would survive the force put onto its body by such immense speed. At the speeds of several 100 MPH really screws up the body already.

All I'm saying is that I feel robinlee was looking for more of an answer... and I feel in speaking about a science we know so little about everything must be accounted for and all is possible. The unphathomable is that, everything you can NEVER dream of. It also should go that we should never assume only one science will explain it.




When I was in 4th grade I learned a way of looking at things from a fictional novel. I also learned how chauvanistic humans are. The book was "Sphere" (I know you've read it or atleast seen the crappy movie) and it was the part where they just discovered there is intelligent life inside of the sphere... everyone starts guessing what it will look like and if it is violent. The woman steps forward and states that why should this creature even be organic or violent. What if the creature has no emotion or what if it breathed in carbon dioxide and exhaled carbon monoxide and killed them accidently just be standing in the vicinity of them.

I thought for a moment and discounted the idea of lil' green men all together. (well not all together, but you get what I mean).

To much RedBull makes me stupid; sorry.

[bozina]

My feeling is that we are in the 4th dimension - we just don't see it. We can't really - we try to see it and comprehend it with 3rd dimensional eyes and thoughts.

Perhaps the 4th dimension is a spiritual dimension that is the driving force behind all life. After all, what is it exactly that causes us to live? Is it merely the 3rd dimensional sun and some 3rd dimensional gases mixed in the right combination over millions of years? Or could it be something more that "sustains" us all that drives our existance?

The more we come to realize about the 4th dimension perhaps the less we we be able to relate to the 3rd.

[moonlord]

Though I don't know how an organic creature would survive the force put onto its body by such immense speed.

It's not speed, but acceleration that puts force in a body. Too much Red Bull also tires you .

Anyway, my opinion about this is that some supranatural phenomena are, in fact, explainable with 3D laws, and the rest are related to 4D. I've still got a question on teleportation via 4D (I'll refer to 2D/3D as a comparison): If you move X from A to B in the same plane, it's obvious that the shortest distance (let it be 'd') is in a straight line. Thus, the minimum time is d/c. If you move X from A to B via 3D, the distance will be longer. Assuming that the maximum speed reachable is the same in 2D and 3D, then the time to carry X via 3D is greater than d/c.

From my point of view, this means it's faster (aka 'takes less time') to carry an object in 3D via 3D, than exitind the 3D 'slice' and than entering again. This makes teleportation useless, except for, say, secretly carrying the thing. I think my line of thoughts is correct, but please correct me if it is not.

However, if the maximum reachable speed is not the same in different dimensional realms, then things change. I've seen there are some people trying to form the laws of 4D physics. Maybe they ( ) can answer my question.

Anyway, I cannot see how 'instant' teleportation is possible. It implies the movement of a body, and as far as I know (and maybe I'm wrong, proven i'm in the 8th grade) the maximum speed reachable is, at least in 3D, the speed of light.

Thank you for reading my 2 cents and please do answer.

[Katsushiro_Myoshi]

My feeling is that we are in the 4th dimension - we just don't see it. We can't really - we try to see it and comprehend it with 3rd dimensional eyes and thoughts.

Perhaps the 4th dimension is a spiritual dimension that is the driving force behind all life. After all, what is it exactly that causes us to live? Is it merely the 3rd dimensional sun and some 3rd dimensional gases mixed in the right combination over millions of years? Or could it be something more that "sustains" us all that drives our existance?

The more we come to realize about the 4th dimension perhaps the less we we be able to relate to the 3rd.

I agree. God and other "hyperbeings" are said to surround us, that is why ghosts are supossedly called so quickly in a seance (if you believe in that), and God is said to be everywhere, an example of supernatural activity such as a stool levitating, "would pose the question, how does such an insignificant being, that appears to be invisible lift a solid object?" No such question arises if we think of hyperbeings as solid. We just can't see them.

is that correct?

If you were a 4th dimensional being, you could surround us in the 3rd dimensional world and we wouldn't see you right?!?

[moonlord]

I don't believe in God but that's not related. We might have trenght (as a 4th dimension) but it must be small enough so we cannot perceive it. If that's the case, then we may have 'ethereal entities' around us. We would only observe parts of them intersecting our '3d realm'. I don't think I'd like to see those intersections anyway... I believe it would be very gory.

[burnhart]

Anyway, my opinion about this is that some supranatural phenomena are, in fact, explainable with 3D laws, and the rest are related to 4D. I've still got a question on teleportation via 4D (I'll refer to 2D/3D as a comparison): If you move X from A to B in the same plane, it's obvious that the shortest distance (let it be 'd') is in a straight line. Thus, the minimum time is d/c. If you move X from A to B via 3D, the distance will be longer. Assuming that the maximum speed reachable is the same in 2D and 3D, then the time to carry X via 3D is greater than d/c.

From my point of view, this means it's faster (aka 'takes less time') to carry an object in 3D via 3D, than exitind the 3D 'slice' and than entering again. This makes teleportation useless, except for, say, secretly carrying the thing. I think my line of thoughts is correct, but please correct me if it is not.

However, if the maximum reachable speed is not the same in different dimensional realms, then things change. I've seen there are some people trying to form the laws of 4D physics. Maybe they ( ) can answer my question.

Anyway, I cannot see how 'instant' teleportation is possible. It implies the movement of a body, and as far as I know (and maybe I'm wrong, proven i'm in the 8th grade) the maximum speed reachable is, at least in 3D, the speed of light.

Thank you for reading my 2 cents and please do answer.[/quote]





i believe you are right.when you travel from point a to point b a straight line is the fastest.it would make no sence to first go up than forward and than back down if you can do the same thing vy just going forward.

[jinydu]

Well burnhart, your argument only applies if 3D is "flat". If it is curved, there may be a shorter path that passes through 4D. The analogy would be bending a 2D sheet of paper. Then it may be possible to travel a shorter distance between two points by leaving the sheet of paper. And it turns out that in General Relativity, spacetime does become curved in the prescence of energy, in the sense that the distance formula for two points in spacetime changes.

However, I would agree that instantaneous teleportation of massive objects really does violate the known laws of physics. When scientists talk about teleportation, they don't mean instantaneous teleportation. They mean, for instance, collecting information about a particle, encoding into a photon, sending the photon to another location, then reconstructing a copy of the particle at that other location using the information encoded in the photon.

[moonlord]

Actually it was my argument... . He should fix that quote.

Yes, I know that is a big hole in the theory. We seem to know almost nothing about the shape of the universe. It was a pure supposition. It also was one of my first posts in here, and I didn't understand curvature of the 3D space at the time...

Talking about teleportation... What I think they're trying to obtain is to transform matter into information, via encoding, so they can send it at light speed. I understood this is quite easy. The main problem is reconstructing the initial mass at the destination...

[wendy]

People use "dimension" for what we used to use "south seas" or "america" or something. Some long forgotten corner of the world where the mysteries of physics are no longer held.

Consider a ghost. Apart from the fact you can look through it, it is pretty much the same as you and me. That is, it has various bits and peices, just wanting flesh. Its eyes and nose and mouth more or less stay in order, and look pretty much like our own.

Compare this with a shadow. It only has a nose when the nose is on the light profile. Most to the time the shadow of the nose falls on the face, or it is hidden from the light.

A four-dimensional being, quite frankly, casts a 3d shadow, but this shadow no more passes as a spirit-being, than our shadows pass for egyptian walking! Quite frankly, a four-dimensional being deciding to do shadow-walks on the wall is about as thrilling as three-dimensional beings doing shadow-walks to enthrall the wall-dwelling 2d things.

Ye would be better off thinking of ghosts as being of a different frequency, just ordinary objects in 3d, probably kind of like echos in the ether, or visitors from new york or from sling in tibet. Because this is much more accurate representation than to think of them as 4d critters. The former actually are more likely to do the sort of things that ghosts are want to do.

W