black holes

Higher-dimensional geometry (previously "Polyshapes").

black holes

Postby Upsilon » Thu May 26, 2005 8:29 pm

could black holes lead to the fourth dimension? or any dimension for that matter. After reading about tetraspace and the types of rotation, bodies of water, and various shapes it seems plauseable that a black hole (consisting of massive amounts of dark matter of unknown origin) could lead into amazing possibilites. If we enter into one...would be able to get back?? would it make us 4th dimensional? or be able to see it....I know that we can't because we are 3D....but it raises some interesting questions. I know there is very little information about it out there i'd just like to hear some thoughts.
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Postby jinydu » Thu May 26, 2005 11:16 pm

This thread really belongs in the "Relativity" section.

It seems that the general public loves to speculate about black holes, often with little or no knowledge about how they really work. There seems to be a grave misconception that "the fourth dimension" is some kind of mythical "place". There is no evidence that this is the case. Instead, it is a concept that mathematicians and physicists use to describe things. If you would really like to know about black holes, you should read some articles or books on them (written by scientists) or much better yet, take a university course on General Relativity.
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Postby wendy » Fri May 27, 2005 12:04 am

A black hole is more likely to render you as a zero-dimenional thing (ie a point), so it probably won't matter anyway.

All the world will see of it, is your last screams as you pass the event horizon, mangled in with the last screems of 1,728,000 other things that happened to visit that same point.

But black holes are not geometric objects: relativy forum handles cosmology, this handles the simple geometry where there are four perpendicular euclidean elements.
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agreed

Postby Upsilon » Fri May 27, 2005 12:35 am

Ok, so what happens when you enter a black hole?
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Postby wendy » Fri May 27, 2005 4:06 am

You don't actually enter it. You continue to go through. Space gets horribly distorted, because most of the light is coming from one direction. Assuming you are not ripped apart by the infall...

A black hole, is essentially a region where the escape velocity becomes greater than light. For someone outside of it, you see a surface where time has essentially stopped: since no light escapes it it be black.

For someone falling into it, it chances that other light falling into it might continue to be visible, so you actually don't cross any sort of surface. But the places where the light comes from continue to shrink, and you see less and less of the universe.

None the same, from inside the black hole, one continues to observe what is going on in real time. That is, you can listen to what is going on outside (because light continues to fall in).

On the other hand, no one can hear you. Light can't escape. So the outside people see an event horizon (ie where light stops coming from), but you don't (because light can come from inside to further inside).
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Postby jinydu » Fri May 27, 2005 5:03 am

Eventually the gravitational field at the end of your body closer to the singularity becomes significantly stronger than the gravitational field at the end of your body farther from the singularity. This causes the some parts of your body to accelerate with respect to other parts, tearing you apart. Therefore, it is not possible to survive a trip into a black hole.
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quest

Postby Upsilon » Wed Jun 01, 2005 5:15 pm

has anyone known if we (humans) have ever seem somthing enter into a black hole. Not that it would be very interesting. But have we even seen a black hole either? Sending some type of extremely small transmitter through it be possible?
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Re: quest

Postby jinydu » Thu Jun 02, 2005 5:44 am

Upsilon wrote:has anyone known if we (humans) have ever seem somthing enter into a black hole. Not that it would be very interesting. But have we even seen a black hole either? Sending some type of extremely small transmitter through it be possible?


Well, we have seen things that are in the process of falling into a black hole. Matter that is being sucked in tends to form "accretion disks" and emit increasingly high frequency radiation as they accelerate. But of course, once inside the event horizon, matter is no longer observable.

As for seeing hole, it depends on precisely what you mean by that. We can see the effects of black holes, but so far, we haven't been able to see a black hole directly. By that, I mean we don't have a picture that shows a little black dot, surrounded by matter; although some scientists say that such a picture could come sometime within the next 5 years or so, as technology continues to improve.
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