the minds time and eintiens time

Discussions about the possibility of consciousness, free will, spirits, deities, religions and so on, and how these might interact with time travel, the Big Bang, many worlds and so on.

the minds time and eintiens time

Postby batmanmg » Fri Sep 22, 2006 6:25 am

while thinking of a topic for an informative speech I was reminded of something brought up before in the forums on the big=slow thread. it had to do with how flies must precieve time to be much slower than we do to make such lighting fast flight patterns.

well that brought me to how when stairing at the clock time seems to be sooooo slow, but when we are playing a video game it seems to fly by.

many complexe chemical reactions take place over a short period of time. your mind calculates many variables at once, the work your brain does can be compared to distance travled. travel at near light speed is like your mind taking a sociology test. well if you travel in a rocket ship at near light speed and you record a year has passed and return to earth, what might have actualy passed might be 10 years. (or does it not work like that?) when your taking that sociology test or maybe playing video games, your mind records that 6 minutes have passed, but in reality its been about an hour. so the faster you think the slower you think time is passing.

i call it batmans theory of mental relativity. anyone want to punch some holes in it, or even totaly obliterate it? or have any other ideas on whats going on.

im currently reading "its about time" a book explaining relativity. I just started so if anyone wants to clear up any confusion, please do.

edit (AGGGG POSTED IN WRONG PLACE, CAN ANYONE MOVE THIS TO RELATIVITY AND TIME TRAVEL)
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Postby thigle » Fri Sep 22, 2006 11:25 am

try checking out Metod Saniga. he's one of leading experts on the nature of perceived time. google him up.
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Postby rudeonline » Sat Sep 23, 2006 8:52 am

Consciousness, the border of the universe..




Since the mind and life institute is trying to explain more about science and spiritualism I would like to tell you my idea about consciousness. The thing is that men are looking in the wrong direction with A. Einstein’s relativity theory. Not light it is moving, we are moving trough time and space with the speed of light. Light is only energy leaving his source as a trail.


At the speed of light there is no time. So nothing can move.
From the point of view from a person each distance is a possibility into the future. While we travel trough time we are able to see all options what the light is showing us from a point of view from a possible future.


To prove my idea I wrote the following text...



I would like to explain why the relativity theory of Einstein is wrong. Important to know is that I think that this must understandable for many people in a very simple way. The issue I try to prove with my idea is that our own consciousness is the absolute border of the universe. Tomorrow does not exist yet, so space and time of tomorrow do not exist. The only thing that really exist is the absolute moment what we call “now”. To explain this I have to prove that the speed of light is not 300.000km/sec but actually zero. I know that this sounds completely strange but read on and I will try to explain you in a short way how I think to prove this.


The first thing to know is that there is no time at light speed. At light speed time stands still. How can something move if there is no time to move? Looking to the twin paradox a traveller trough space leaves the earth and comes back and is only 1 second older. The person on Earth is than for example 2 years older.


If the traveller trough space only became one second older, he never could make a longer trip than 300.000km. He had only 1sec to travel! The person on earth was travelling in the same "period" at least 30km/sec, because that is the speed of earth around the sun. Well, 2 years x 30km/sec is a lot more than 300.000km.


Off course I have to explain you a lot more than this, I just hope that I can open some eyes of the scientists working with this theory. If the theory is relative, you also should put it upside down. If light moves with 300.000km/sec one way, we are moving with the same speed the other way. Notice that we measure seconds, not the photon. You need time to move.


I would like to tell you a lot more about the way it is possible that we can "see" things if light is not moving, also this is not to difficult to understand. From the point of view from the individual all other things you see are possibilities in the future. The person travels true time (to tomorrow and so on...) while light leaves a trail into the past from the point of view where it comes from.


I hope that you understand my idea what I would like to show to the people. The idea of a multiversum is so a lot closer to mankind (everyone is the middle of his own universe) and consciousness is the border of the universe. We can choose our own future. All is one.
The mind creates the universe..
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Postby thigle » Sat Sep 23, 2006 12:32 pm

it's partly right. the light inside itself is indeed standing still.

however, i ponder, why do you end up your thread with 'all is one' statement ? isn't it too monistic. we don't have to emphasize unity over difference, it's totality that's dual to unity, only aristotelian unity as identity of the excluded middle is dual to difference.

kant had these four dialectical sets of categories as fundamental thinkable constructs, one of them was unity, plurality, totality. he missed wholeness for a complete conceptual tetrad.

as nagarjuna, the founder of the Madhyamika logic of the middle way says:
'wise do not dwell in the middle. without extremes, there is no centre...'

btw, welcome to tetraspace.
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Re: the minds time and eintiens time

Postby jinydu » Sat Sep 23, 2006 1:57 pm

batmanmg wrote:i call it batmans theory of mental relativity. anyone want to punch some holes in it, or even totaly obliterate it? or have any other ideas on whats going on.


Well, there are plenty of problems with this idea (notice I use the word idea, not theory). The most obvious of which is:

Can you give a precise definition of "mental time" as well as a way to measure it objectively?
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Postby batmanmg » Sat Sep 23, 2006 7:11 pm

theory word use was a bit of a joke. i guess i shouldn't become a comic.

now then since i don't know all that much about the functions of the brain i can't give you a definition of time perception. nor do i have a definite measuring stick for it. the best i've got is that how much time you think has passed by is the measurement of how much time your mind has perceived to pass. this is only if you have a concept of time, so no 1 week feeling like its only been 2 days thats more of a delusion than a perception.

while i don't know percisely what it is, physicaly, nor how to measure it, i do know that it must be there. the body does have a mental clock.

and rudeonline, could you post your ideas that are nearly completely unrelated on a different thread? becuase i don't see how that has much to do with this.

thigle ty for the suggestion, wasn't sure of how to beggin researching this.
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Postby papernuke » Tue Sep 26, 2006 12:38 am

rudeonline wrote:At the speed of light there is no time. So nothing can move.


i never got that. if nothing is moving at the speed of light, how can light move?
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Postby houserichichi » Tue Sep 26, 2006 2:25 am

Nothing with mass can move at the speed of light. Light has no mass.
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Postby batmanmg » Tue Sep 26, 2006 3:46 am

nothing but the light can move. if you were in a spaceship and traveling at the speed of light, everything would apear to be motionless.

rudeonline wrote:If the theory is relative, you also should put it upside down. If light moves with 300.000km/sec one way, we are moving with the same speed the other way. Notice that we measure seconds, not the photon. You need time to move.


lets say you were driving a car that was, relative to a pedestrian on the side of the road, traveling at the speed of light. acording to you if you looked at your hand, it would apear stationary. this is not true. if you looked at your hand, it would in fact apeard to be moving ahead of you at the speed of light.

c = the speed of light

x = v<sub>hp</sub> = velocity of my hand relative to a pedestrian = c

y = v<sub>pm</sub> = velocity of pedestrain relative to me = V V V

the limit as n aproaches infinity of -[c-(1/n)] = -c

since 1/infinity = 0 its like -(c-0) = -c

z = v<sub>hm</sub> = velocity of my hand relative to me

your line of reasoning goes along with the idea that you can add velocities like this

v<sub>hm</sub> = v<sub>hp</sub> + v<sub>pm</sub>

or simply z = x+y

but it infact must be added acording to relativistic motion. this has been tested time and again and is true

z = (x+y)/[1+(xy/c<sup>2</sup>)]

well plugging in all the above values gives

z = [c - (c - 1/n)]/[1 - (c)(c - 1/n)/c<sup>2</sup>]

z = [1/n]/[1-(1-1/nc)] ----> [1/n][1-1 + 1/nc] ---> [1/n]/[1/nc]

z = c

v<sub>hm</sub> = c

so the velocity of my hand relative to me is the speed of light and not 0

replace the hand with photon, and me with a beam of light, and you get that relative to a beam of light, each photon does not have 0 velocity, but has a velocity eaqual to the speed of light.

Now can we get past your ubsurdly offtopic post and get back to my original topic post? (if a mod could split all the rudeonline related stuff into another thread that would be nice)
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Postby houserichichi » Tue Sep 26, 2006 4:48 am

batmanmg wrote:nothing but the light can move. if you were in a spaceship and traveling at the speed of light, everything would apear to be motionless.


Except every other massless particle travelling at light speed...but yes, we can't really 'see' those, can we...though we can't really see individual photons either, I suppose. ;)
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Postby batmanmg » Tue Sep 26, 2006 4:59 am

nope no seeing light for us... our eyes have to physicaly feel light in order to see. but i have an idea as to how, iff they are large enough, one can see an electromagnetic wave. but its offtopic so i'll post it elsewhere later.

for now... what about the minds perception of time. the rate at which one thinks warps its perception of time just as traveling at great velocities warps actual time. is there any possible physical connection, or maybe a purely mental explanation?
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Postby thigle » Tue Sep 26, 2006 10:21 am

well, i suppose you did not skim through metod saniga's theories, did you ?

there you can find out how the spacetime is a projection over noumena of existence, and that this spacetime projection can change from ordinary perception of time to 2 'extreme' cases: infinite time & no time. both of these are encountered in altered states of consciousness, whether achieved through trance, dance, meditation, drugs, awareness training or whathave you that let's you alter habitual patterns of mind to such a degree that it drops ordinary mode of projecting time.

between these 2 (no-time & all-time), there is a gradient of different spacetime modalities.

all of these can be seen as diferent pencils of conics.

please start here: http://www.ta3.sk/~msaniga/pub/space-time.html
or buy and read this: http://www.worldscibooks.com/physics/5947.html
or start from his current research:
http://www.ta3.sk/~msaniga/curres.html
at least skim through with open and attentive mind through this, it's a bit like a summary of his different partial papers, it's called GEOMETRIC CHART OF ALTERED TEMPORALITY (& SPATIALITY): http://www.ta3.sk/~msaniga/pub/ftp/ZiF_05_san.pdf

also, 'geometry of time & dimensionality of space' is an interesting article.
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Postby papernuke » Thu Sep 28, 2006 2:30 am

whats the difference between the mind's time and einstein's time anyways?
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Postby batmanmg » Thu Sep 28, 2006 4:02 am

one is a physical property of time, the other is a mental perception of time... totaly different. with one, time actualy gets warped, in the other you only think that time is being warped.
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Postby papernuke » Sat Sep 30, 2006 3:28 am

how? and why?
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Postby jinydu » Sat Sep 30, 2006 5:51 pm

Icon, just read the early posts of this thread. batmanmg is talking about how sometimes, time "feels" like it is "moving" faster or slower to the human mind. Admittedly, "mental time" is rather uninteresting to me because it is vague and subjective.
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Postby batmanmg » Mon Oct 02, 2006 12:25 am

true it is somewhat boring, but i feel that if there was more of a definition to it, that it would be more exiting... because its something that occurs to everyone all the time...

imagine being able to control the flow of time in your mind.

what seems like hours of thinking could be done in a matter of minutes.
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