"Not-Physical" Fourth Dimension

Discussions about the possibility of consciousness, free will, spirits, deities, religions and so on, and how these might interact with time travel, the Big Bang, many worlds and so on.

Postby gutto786 » Fri Apr 21, 2006 11:46 am

I have my final exams going on these days, so I am really busy. That's why I never showed up for 2-3 days. Anyhow I think what all of the people here are saying is kind of right because if I come up with something more logical about my theory then maybe people will think about it. I seriously realized that after reading a guys reply saying my way of describing my ideas are not proper enough.

Anyhow, my exams will be done in a week and then I will really start working on it to bring some logic in it because if what I am saying is wrong then I should realize that and if what I am saying is right then I should make it clear enough for other people to realize. You guys can go on adding your arguments on it because I am really enjoying it now.

irockyou wrote:People like you disgust me. I feel dirty posting on this, and I feel like throwing up whenever you post. This is my last post on my thread... good riddance. You have done nothing to better the world and probably never will.

p.s., thank you for editing his posts inverted, they were giving me a headache.


I accept all the cross arguments from all the people who came on this forum because if they felt this was not right then they said that my ideas were not right.

But for you I have got these words. Screw you. If I disgust you then you don't come to this forum. I think you are some inferiority complex kinda thing who thinks he have every right to say anything they want. Next time you dare saying anything about me, you will surely get more from my side. I ignored you before but it will not be same again.

You are still welcome to argue about the Theory.

Edit by iNVERTED: Fixed spelling and grammar.
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Postby houserichichi » Fri Apr 21, 2006 1:57 pm

As words of encouragement, you're not alone in your thinking. There are a great many who frequent this and other forums that believe consciousness or some other metaphysical construct is the fourth dimension. The problem with 90% of their ideas is that they can't be backed up with any logic or reason whatsoever. As you did, they spouted off some ideas and said "this is how things are so start considering my theory." The problem is they made claims without really forming a proper argument. That's when the rest of us came out of the forest and tore the theory to shreds. We were able to do so because it wasn't formed with any logical basis, it was just unsupported and disconnected claims.

I, personally, would probably be one of the kinds of people who would claw at the walls before I believed something like consciousness or dreams were the fourth dimension but on this forum I think it's great to debate such things and read about other peoples' ways of thought. So don't get discouraged, keep up the good work, and sit down and map out your arguments with some more structure. Make it hard for the rest of us to rip it up but keep the logic consistent with reality. You know us mathies love a good challenge.
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Postby moonlord » Sat Apr 22, 2006 11:21 am

Well, I could say the Earth is not moving and all the other bodies are revolving around according to some rules. This sounds stupid, but you can't prove it wrong. Why are all the rules the same for all bodies except the Earth? Because God wants it so. EDIT: Just realized this contradicts Occam's Razor so forget it.

I also have a similar theory. People are fighting with gutto just because he claims it to be a fourth SPATIAL dimension.
"God does not play dice." -- Albert Einstein, early 1900's.
"Not only does God play dice, but... he sometimes throws them where we cannot see them." -- Stephen Hawking, late 1900's.
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Postby houserichichi » Sun Apr 23, 2006 3:18 pm

I'm arguing with gutto because he's saying it's any kind of dimension at all. Jinydu's made the point quite clear that the word "dimension" has a very defined meaning that, unfortunately for the metaphysically inclined, is not up for debate or change. There are a multitude of other definitions for other "kinds" of dimensions (covering, Krull, Hausdorff to name but a few) but arbitrarily choosing a piece of reality and labelling it "the fourth dimension" is bad form and deserves criticism if it can't be shown to be logically defined as such.

If we look back at most of the posts that go against the grain of accepted science on this forum you'll see a select few appearing to argue against every idea posted. We're not trying to be jerks about it but for something to be widely accepted it has to pass through the brutal gauntlet of accepted scientific theory, experiment, and mathematical (logical) scrutiny. Making claims without any reason just isn't convincing enough. If Einstein was to post on this forum (were it, and us to exist back in the early 1900s) with this new fangled "relativity theory" I'm sure you'd see just as many negative responses to his work. The reason? He'd be attempting to pass it off as science and it would be our job (just like the referees of scientific journals) to find holes and tear it to pieces. Ultimately, however, we'd be wrong (for the most part) and relativity would pass, Einstein would be famous, and I'm certain that this message board would quadruple in membership overnight. :D

Anyway, that's my take on the debate but I can't speak for anyone else. There might be some truth to what gutto is saying but he hasn't argued or shown why it might be true. I couldn't do any better, admittedly, so I'm not on any high horse...new science is hard to make.
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Postby quixata » Fri Apr 28, 2006 8:39 am

It is quiet hard to differentiate a 'metaphysical fourth dimension' from a 'spatial fourth dimension' as both are imaginary.

The only difference is that a 'spatial fourth dimension', though imaginary, has a definite structure.

But, gutto, I have one issue with your definition of this metaphysical fourth dimension. In your definition, you have included 'Death' as well.
To me, it is way different from 'Sleep'. For a 'Sleep' has before and after events. During 'Sleep' one can have dreams but what happens after a person dies, are unknown.
From that point of view, I prefer to exclude 'Death' from the definition for a 'metaphysical fourth dimension'.

I now want to add one more phenomenon to this definition. Think of a lunatic person. Suppose we are all sitting in a room (including the lunatic). But the lunatic may think otherwise. But the reality of 'sitting in the room' to us is no more real than the imagination of the lunatic to the lunatic.

As if the lunatic is transported to a different world and the realities of that different world is unknown to us.
A mere ignorance of us does not change the reality and so, the imagination of the lunatic does not seem to be un-real but a reality of which we know nothing.

I would like to include this reality in the definition of a metaphysical fourth dimension.

Thanks
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Re: "Not-Physical" Fourth Dimension

Postby sup2069 » Tue May 02, 2006 1:23 am

gutto786 wrote:Thats why every prophet met GOD or got revelations from GOD in their dreams. Because it is impossible to travel to GOD in the physical medium but it is easier (for a pious person in case of meeting GOD :) ) to travel to GOD


Not to turn this thread into a religious one. But in my opinion, you cant travel to God. If God didnt want to meet you in your dreams, he would make it so. He will come to you if/when the time came.
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Postby The_Science_Guy » Tue May 02, 2006 4:17 pm

There's a big problem with that theroy, though. If you meet someone in your dreams, then according to your theory, both would remember seeing the other in the dream, however, as far as I know, that's not the case.
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